How do the stock brakes hold up at the track??

[modifiede30]

Get SS lines, they help. Other than that, you'll likely be okay but I'd add ducting if you can.

[gmh1234]

got 'em. :D

Here's my brake setup:

SS Lines (all 6), Super Blue
Balo rotors (front) Hawk HT10's
Balo rotors (rear) Axxis Ultimates
No ducting....but after this weekend, will have ducting. :D

I'm hoping that the ducting will have a significant effect on the braking. Every one of my friends in E30's has never had any problems with ATE boiling before. I guess I'm just hard on brakes. :P

[nando]

We've had some breakdown of ATE during endurance races. We've been using Motul for a while now with no issues. It's got a 60 degree (nearly) higher boiling point than ATE as well.

interesting, I'll keep that in mind when I get a chance to track my car. I use my car almost entirely on the street, and don't use my brakes that often (90% freeway driving). the ATE was sure a heck of a lot better than the old OEM fluid (that probably wasn't that old). plus it looks tasty ;)

how much more does the Motul cost? ATE isn't cheap but it's not enough to brake the bank (har har). I suppose if it was twice as expensive, that still wouldn't be too bad considering how often most people actually change their brake fluid!

[M3fiftyseven]

$11.99 for 16oz. bottle at Pegasus - http://www.pegasusautoracing.com/Pro...?Product=MT600

About the same price as ATE.

[TIATO]

My 318is has the following:

SS Lines
Stock Rotors
745 Brake Master Cylinder
ATE Super Blue
Carbotech XP9 Track Pads
Stock Brake Ducting

I have never had a problem with fade unless I get sloppy in the braking zones - meaning brakeing to soon and too softly. Best way to avoid fading is not to use the brakes.

When I get some pedal softness I know my braking is getting sloppy and I change the way I slow down. I brake later and MUCH harder and more often than not, carry more speed through the turns.

Another compent that aids with brake cooling is to run a relatively open wheel design such as a Kosei K1 or SSR Comp. I determined that wheels such as basket weaves or any wheel which is resonably enclosed will retain more heat.

[Mike P.]

what's wrong with the ATE fluid? or is Motul just that much better?

There's nothing wrong with Ate. Ate has a better pedal feel than the Motul. I mean, I guess in an endurance race you could fry the stuff, which is where the Motuls extra several degrees of temperature range might come in handy, but I've run close to an hour on track (VIR with the "massive braking zones") using Ate and Carbotechs and not an ounce of problem.

[getfast]

what's wrong with the ATE fluid? or is Motul just that much better?

There's nothing wrong with Ate. Ate has a better pedal feel than the Motul. I mean, I guess in an endurance race you could fry the stuff, which is where the Motuls extra several degrees of temperature range might come in handy, but I've run close to an hour on track (VIR with the "massive braking zones") using Ate and Carbotechs and not an ounce of problem.

I alternate between the Ate Super Blue and the RBF600, and have never boiled either one (Brembos / Axxis Ultimates front, Brembos / Axxis Metal Masters rear.) This is on an E30 325is with stock ducting and the backing plates removed, during sessions at VIR and Summit Point, and I like to brake at the "1 marker"

Some people suggest that Super Blue seems to be more "hygroscopic" than the Motul, that is, it soaks in moisture more quickly (which lowers the boiling point very quickly.) I bleed mine before every track visit and haven't had the problem (not to say it couldn't happen if the Ate bleed was 6 months old and daily driven...)

PS- to the original poster, Axxis Ultimate = best all around cheap dual duty pad ever (IMHO), and they're CHEAP :twisted:

Jon

[SpencerM3]

PS- to the original poster, Axxis Ultimate = best all around cheap dual duty pad ever (IMHO), and they're CHEAP :twisted:

Jon

What kind of tires do you run at the track?

I've seen Axxis Ultimates crumble away at the track with sticky street tires. Just too much heat for them to handle.

IMO, they are a good street/auto-x pad but I wouldn't ever use them at the track with any sort of grippy compound tire.

[getfast]

What kind of tires do you run at the track?

I've seen Axxis Ultimates crumble away at the track with sticky street tires. Just too much heat for them to handle.

IMO, they are a good street/auto-x pad but I wouldn't ever use them at the track with any sort of grippy compound tire.

Just some 15" Azenis or whatever else I can get my hands on cheap. I even ran on all season radials in the back with Azenis in the front once, to get the car more loose.

I have not yet run this car on R-compounds.

Next year it will be on Toyos as per Spec E30 rules.

Some tracks are a lot harder on brakes than Summit Point and/or VIR, which are the only places I've run this car so far.

Jon

[JeffBij]

What kind of tires do you run at the track?

I've seen Axxis Ultimates crumble away at the track with sticky street tires. Just too much heat for them to handle.

IMO, they are a good street/auto-x pad but I wouldn't ever use them at the track with any sort of grippy compound tire.

Just some 15" Azenis or whatever else I can get my hands on cheap. I even ran on all season radials in the back with Azenis in the front once, to get the car more loose.

I have not yet run this car on R-compounds.

Next year it will be on Toyos as per Spec E30 rules.

Some tracks are a lot harder on brakes than Summit Point and/or VIR, which are the only places I've run this car so far.

Jon

I've been running Hawk HT-10's in the front with great results at VIR. No fade, and that's breaking from 120mph at the 1.5 marker at turn one. I used to use HP Plus, but after a weekend at CMP in South Carolina, I was cooking them so bad that the dust was turning rust red from the heat. James Clay at Bimmerworld is recommending the Mintex M1144 race pads for the rears with the HT-10's. (That's what they are running on their World Challenge cars.)

As for tires, I've just started running the Toyo Proxes RA-1's and love them.

Which ever fluid you run, don't forget to change it often. I personally do a complete change out (Super Blue) prior to each track weekend. At $10-12 a liter, its good peace of mind to know that there is no water in the system. The alternative of boiled fluid and a close encounter with a tire wall...

If the car is mainly for track use, removing the dust plate from behind the rotors will help with the cooling alot. (You'll have to remove them to put the cooling plates in anyways.)

My two cents worth.


Jeff B
Roanoke, VA
'89 325i SpecE30 prepared

[Charlie]

Jeff, how much life are you getting out of the HT10's?

-Charlie

[JeffBij]

HT-10 life

Jeff, how much life are you getting out of the HT10's?

-Charlie

I've run one weekend on them at VIR in July with maybe 3/4ths of the pad left. I have a two day HPDE school in two weeks at Summit Point, so I'll see how well they hold up. I guessing 4 to 5 weekends before I'll need to change them out (depending on the tracks). I'm figuring they will last longer than the HP Plus's or EBC Reds (which were gone in 2 weekends).

The Toyo RA-1's, shaved to 5/32nds, will probably last me 3 weekends before they are worn out. We'll see.


Jeff B.

[rwh11385]

Anyone know of a source of backing plates similar to what Langsten posted, for non-Ms? Someone in a 325is at the track had M3-units but said they didn't fit his car. I'd love some for when I redo the front suspension.

Bimmerworld right? Flanges, would you get them?
http://www.bimmerworld.com/html/brake-cooling-kits.htm

[MichaelH]

Anyone know of a source of backing plates similar to what Langsten posted, for non-Ms? Someone in a 325is at the track had M3-units but said they didn't fit his car. I'd love some for when I redo the front suspension.

Bimmerworld right? Flanges, would you get them?
http://www.bimmerworld.com/html/brake-cooling-kits.htm

I have ducts on my e36 M3 for the track and they are very nice. It takes a lot to make them fade with good track pads. I would just get the backing plates with the inlet and then make your own ducts to the airdam with the hoses, zip ties, etc. I would say it is almost a must if you go to a track that is hard on brakes.