Colorado general chat...

[griffincox]

I would take an E30 or E46 over an E36. Mostly just cause of looks. The E36 seems like the goofy stepping stone between classic and modern. To each their own.

[clarkkey594]

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It probably handles better. The E30 M3 was a great car.....in 1988. They are absurdly slow.

[325ix]

I would take an E30 or E46 over an E36. Mostly just cause of looks. The E36 seems like the goofy stepping stone between classic and modern. To each their own.

Same, however, I am simply not a fan of new BMW electronics. They are too complicated. My dad's subaru and my mom's volvo are perfectly good.

[Roland H]

As for my opinion, the E30 looks better than the E36, it is smaller, easier to work on, has a robust interior that doesn't fall apart. But hey I like E36s too, they are great parts donor cars!

I don't undestand this more robust interior argument.

The E36 has a much more robust interior. The dashboard doesn't crack, the map pockets don't crack, nothing will really squeak or rattle unless you take it apart and don't put it back together right. The coupes have door panel issues, which are easily fixed with some butyl and epoxy. That's about it. The problem is, E30 guys buy an E36, take it apart, and think it will go back together without any extra added effort. Then they're sorely disappointed when they realize that they did it wrong, and blame it on the car.

i am visiting family in fort collins so i figured i could chime in to this colorado topic..

i thought that e36 were more complicated and unreliable and unable to be repaired without a real shop where as the e30 could be repaired and diagnosed with basic tools and knowledge.

am i missing out on an e36 experience because i'm dumb?

Is that what someone told you, or what you've experienced? Your post smells a lot like trolling.

The biggest difference between the E30 and E36, in my experience, is:

With an E30, a check light comes on, it doesn't run quite right, or makes a funny noise, and all these things are attributed to the car having a 'personality.'

With an E36, a check light comes on, it doesn't run quite right, or makes a funny noise, and the car is a 'shitbox.'


No timing belts in an E36, a plus in my book. Not much is hard to do on them, especially once you've done it once. Interior is a little harder to take apart because it's assembled from the factory with hidden clips, screws, hopes, dreams, and a little wood glue.

The fact that the E36 will actually tell you what is wrong with itself is nice too. The E30 will throw a CEL, and you can still be utterly clueless as to what the true issue is.

Honestly, a big part of it for me is the looks. I love the e36 but it is just kind of odd compared to the E30 imo.

I would take an E30 or E46 over an E36. Mostly just cause of looks. The E36 seems like the goofy stepping stone between classic and modern. To each their own.

Fair enough, but you can't see the outside of the car very much when you're driving it.

Same, however, I am simply not a fan of new BMW electronics. They are too complicated. My dad's subaru and my mom's volvo are perfectly good.

What vintage is your mom's volvo? BMW electronics really didn't get to be that complicated until the E60-range. My 1998-2000 volvos have much more complicating and asinine electronics than an E46 M3.

E36 electronics are simple and, for the most part, independent systems that are easily diagnosed. A $5 multimeter and a cellphone with an OBDII cable will diagnose 99% of E36 issues for you.

[iamsam]

I don't undestand this more robust interior argument.

The E36 has a much more robust interior. The dashboard doesn't crack, the map pockets don't crack, nothing will really squeak or rattle unless you take it apart and don't put it back together right. The coupes have door panel issues, which are easily fixed with some butyl and epoxy. That's about it. The problem is, E30 guys buy an E36, take it apart, and think it will go back together without any extra added effort. Then they're sorely disappointed when they realize that they did it wrong, and blame it on the car.

Robust means simple and resilient. E36 door panel skins peel apart all the bloody time, E36 headliners fall down, whereas that doesn't happen in an E30. Yep, E30 dashes crack like nobody's business though. I like E36 seats though. Again, great donor parts!

The fact that the E36 will actually tell you what is wrong with itself is nice too. The E30 will throw a CEL, and you can still be utterly clueless as to what the true issue is.

um, no it doesn't, unless you mean an OBD2 E36. When something in an E30 breaks it is much easier to figure out what it is. At least it is for me. If something breaks in my E30 I usually know what it is immediately. Of course I fail hard when it comes to electronics, which is another reason I like the older BMWs.

E36 electronics are simple and, for the most part, independent systems that are easily diagnosed. A $5 multimeter and a cellphone with an OBDII cable will diagnose 99% of E36 issues for you.

I guess you are speaking primarily of OBD2 E36s...

[Cloudbase]

I think the other cars you own might also factor into the equation. I have my rare, unique, and power desires met in another car, so the added power and performance of the E36 does not appeal to me the same way as if the E30 / E36 were my only car. I always say if I were only to keep one car, it would be the E30, but that's easy to say with the M Coupe nestled safely in the garage. An E36 M3/4/5 would satisfy the role of all those cars wonderfully.

The E36 has really grown on me the last couple weeks, especially the lines of the sedan in M3 trim. I don't think anyone can effectively argue that the E30 is better in anyway than the E36. The build, ride, suspension, engine, interior are all better in the E36. The E36 M3 is probably the most capable BMW on the track from a $$, weight, horsepower, simplicity, reliability perspective. The ones I have driven have been an absolute pleasure to drive and do exactly what is asked of them with no drama.

The E36 is a perfect balance between modern ammenities without the weight and driver disconnection of the E46. On the drive home from work the heated seats and independant vent temperature control are the bits I will miss the most from my brief E36 ownership. The rattles and terrible ride (which is my fault) of the E30 have really been wearing on me lately.

All of that said, I like my E30 because of its short comings. It's the slow car fast thing. It makes me smile every time I drive the E30. When ever I drive either MZ3 I either find myself utterly frustrated by traffic, speed limits, and idiots. I'm too easily tempted to delve into the felonious speed realm. The E30 is so handicapped compared to modern cars that it keeps me inline on public roads. When I overcome its shortcomings with my little bit of driving talent, it is incredibly enjoyable. I raced a late model Civic Si to the on-ramp last week that would have been an easy victory in an E36 M3. In the E30, my hair was on fire the whole time and holding the perfect line into the inside lane of the on ramp, flat-out while the other guy lifted was pure bliss.

I guess to sum it up what I like most about the E30 is that it completely shuns the direction automobiles (including BMW's) have taken in the past 20 years. The retro lines, small size, light weight, and slow car fast thing reward a little talent with never ending smiles. The E36 surely does this too, but not as much. For me its not really about which car is better, but my own pscycology.

Watch, after writing this novel I'll come home with that Estriol M3/4/5 in two weeks ;-)

[Bimmerman325i]

Last I checked, at near 180k, my door panel skins are totally fine and unpeeled.

Further, the obd1 e36 will also tell you what is wrong with it better than an e30, and is far easier to work on.

Ive owned both, and driven an e30 m3. I prefer the e36 hands down.

Fun fact, a 318i e36 is likely faster and quicker than an e30 m3 in the real world.

[tehwickerman]

I love e30s and e36s in their own right.

I think the e36 is fairly easy to work on after replacing a clutch and now doing all of this timing stuff. Sure you can't take it apart with your eyes closed but you'll also never learn to work on more modern engines without giving it a shot and compared to a lot of other newer cars I've tinkered with the e36 is a breeze.

The e36 interior is a really nice place to be IMO. The door panels suck sometimes but they're an easy fix as stated earlier.

I feel like most e36 hate comes from people that have never owned a good one. Or one at all for that matter.

They can look really good too with a few little touches... Comparing the looks of a sport evo e30 to that of a base e36 is like comparing mila kunis to Britney Spears with a shaved head.

[iamsam]

No E36 hate here. I have owned two of them as well, but no M3s. Either way, disregarding my previous argument, I think comparing the two cars is absurd. It is like comparing a 5th gen corvette with a 6th gen. Which corvette is "better"? the C6 of course!! That is why they made a 6th generation, to make it better than the 5th!! They surely wouldn't have made it worse!! Same w/ BMWs. The only reason to have a soft spot for an E30 over the E36 is the looks, the size and weight, and the nostalgic "oldness" of it, and all the things that come along with that. Surely not for the performance.

That said, I would have a very hard time believing that an E36 318i is any faster (on a racetrack) than an E30 M3.

Also: to address the slowness of these old cars (I'll toss E28 in there with E30), I hope to change that for my cars (and many owners have). Not to shave time off laps around HPR, but for sheer driving pleasure and general awesomeness.

[downforce22]

I guess to sum it up what I like most about the E30 is that it completely shuns the direction automobiles (including BMW's) have taken in the past 20 years. The retro lines, small size, light weight, and slow car fast thing reward a little talent with never ending smiles. The E36 surely does this too, but not as much. For me its not really about which car is better, but my own pscycology.

Basically how I feel. A modern 2002 with a fifth gear. The e36 m3 is great fun to drive and very good for the money. The part of it that does it for me is the typical e36 m3 crowd calling for slammed 'stance' cars. Most e36 m3 owners do not appreciate the fact that it is an evolution of the e30 and stems from the components of the e30. Without the success of the e30, there would be no e36 and most e36 guys don't appreciate that fact. Having said that there is not the cult following of the base e36 325i, but it is still a step up above an e30, the 24v m50/2 helps. It really comes down to what you want out of a vehicle. I like how I can see better and feel smaller in the e30 than the e36. I like the lines of the e30 and the old school 4 headlights. I like the simple interior with controls easy to reach.

Plus the e36 never came in awd configuration! AWD FTW :hitler:

[griffincox]

Fair enough, but you can't see the outside of the car very much when you're driving it.

Call me shallow or whatever you wanna call it, but how a car looks and sounds is as important to how it performs and feels.

[flying_violin]

Looks like someone sparked quite the philosophical debate!

I have owned two E30s and zero E36s. That said, I always seem to get passed at HPR and Pueblo by E36s as well, so the performance of those cars is better (as I would hope). However, there is something special about driving the E30 M3 and 318is. Heritage, sentiment, nostalgia, whatever. I'll continue to drive the door handles off my E30s until blunt, pelican, and bavarian autosport stop selling replacement parts for them. Is it the wisest financial decision? No, but it isn't a terrible one either.

I also agree whole heartedly with cloudbase. I can drive my car as hard as I want, and usually stay reasonably close to what the laws of the road demand. I can floor it from stop lights and rev it out in the lower gears while not looking too out of place. But by that logic (and half the other logic in the last few posts) the 1600 or 2002 should be even greater cars than the E30, as they are simpler, lighter, and less powerful. I've considered looking into a 2002, but I like the compromise of the E30, so I haven't bought a Neu Klasse yet.

Basically, it all comes down to a set of compromises. Where you personally draw the "this is great" line is up to you. There are so many new and used cars out there from so many manufactures, that I don't see a reason to drive a car you don't like driving. I like what I drive, and you like what you drive, so at the end of the day we all enjoy driving what we own which is really the second goal of vehicle ownership (the first being transportation from A to B).

[lambo]

Looks like someone sparked quite the philosophical debate!

[Pabst-90IX]

A little off topic but whatever, anyone know of a junkyard in the denver area with any e30's/e36's or possibly anyone have any seats for sale? i need both fronts the kid i bought my car from threw in audi a4 seats that dont adjust at all and are missing seatbelts. If not as a last resort im going to be ordering some cipher racing seats, 600 for the pair shipped plus brackets. But i would much much rather have some sport seats if possible

[WhyNot]

i am not trolling but i am looking for exactly what the replies are providing.
i have never even ridden in an e36 so i have no personal experience.
i am interested for several reasons. 1 is for myself bc i see some deals locally on some nice e36's. 2 is for others in my family that need transportation and i am the self designated mechanic. 3 is just general info and discussion. by focusing on this issue i can avoid the mental pitfalls of dealing with the realities of life that can crush the spirit.
i can relate to the e30 comments and agree with most.
so please keep the opinions flowing, i appreciate and enjoy it all.
thanks