Henna 325

[Roland H]

Maybe if you peg it at 7200rpm constantly for an hour, but I had no problems with my rockers on track, autocross, and me redlining it for two years.

Internet wisdom usually falls flat in the face of reality, this would be yet more proof.

It does happen, but not nearly as often as S52s eating themselves at same revs.

Weren't you the one that told me that M20 rocker arms only break when used above 6500 RPM?

And there's no point in revving an M20 over 7000 RPM unless it's a stroker.

I personally disagree, but sound aside, an M42 car is WAY slower than a good M20 car in real-world driving.

I'm with Brad on this, if/when I'm getting another E30, it'd be with an M20 or with another 6cyl swapped in already.

Sound, reliability, power, torque, ease of finding parts/repair manuals.....it's my preferred stock non-M E30 motor.

Plus, you can't do SpecE30 with a 318.

(Brad- if you do end up selling your car for a Henna......ring me up.)

Meh, M42s can be made to sound very good... *if* you know what you're doing.

[Bimmerman325i]

Weren't you the one that told me that M20 rocker arms only break when used above 6500 RPM?

And there's no point in revving an M20 over 7000 RPM unless it's a stroker.

If the motor's pegged at 6500-7k constantly (like for several minutes), then yes, they break. Mine never broke any during my ownership, and that car saw redline frequently every day I drove it. They frankly do not break even in spirited driving even in the upper tach region unless you're just redlining the piss out of the car (and if there were casting defects and/or metal fatigue in the rockers).

But no, there's no point in revving beyond 7k unless you have some ridiculous cam, stroker or no.

Meh, M42s can be made to sound very good... *if* you know what you're doing.

They're still slow and 99% of them sound like ass. Metric Mechanic's M42 2100 motor sounds tits though.

[Roland H]

They're still slow and 99% of them sound like ass.

Debate-able.

Plus, they weigh less, don't have timing belts, and use a proper amount of valves per cylinder...

[Bimmerman325i]

Debate-able.

Plus, they weigh less, don't have timing belts, and use a proper amount of valves per cylinder...

I still cannot understand why people think the M20 is horrid just because of a timing belt. Is it really that earth-shattering to have to replace a wear item at 50k miles? It's no different than the M50-family water pump/thermostat issue. It's no different than replacing brake pads or rotors on a normal car every 30k miles. It's no different than replacing tires every 30k miles. It's just a wear item. All the above, when neglected, fail spectacularly and cause catastrophic damage. When maintained properly, no issues.

M42s have timing chain tensioning issues. E36s have rear subframes tear out.

I don't get why the timing belt makes the M20 unreliable or a bad motor. Replace wear parts before they fail, no issues. Don't your Volvos have timing belts? Subarus have Tbelts. A Tbelt is not the end of the fucking world

For a street car, who cares how much it weighs or technical details like valves per cylinder? Worrying about minutiae like that is just intellectual masturbation-- gets you nowhere but makes you feel good.

[Roland H]

I still cannot understand why people think the M20 is horrid just because of a timing belt. Is it really that earth-shattering to have to replace a wear item at 50k miles?

Yes, because nothing involved in the timing of an engine should ever be a wear item.

It's no different than the M50-family water pump/thermostat issue.

False.

M5Xs don't have a thermostat issue, and the water pump issue can be fixed permanently. Heck, I'm still on the original at 150k.

It's no different than replacing brake pads or rotors on a normal car every 30k miles. It's no different than replacing tires every 30k miles.

Uh, those are supposed to be wear parts.

It's just a wear item. All the above, when neglected, fail spectacularly and cause catastrophic damage. When maintained properly, no issues.

the point is that it SHOULDN'T BE A WEAR item. The technology to make it otherwise was there, but was neglected.

M42s have timing chain tensioning issues. E36s have rear subframes tear out.

Not really no. Very rare occurrences.

I don't get why the timing belt makes the M20 unreliable or a bad motor.

Run a timing chain equipped car for 200k miles without changing the timing chain. Now do the same with TBELT equipped car...

Replace wear parts before they fail, no issues.

By this logic, we should just go ahead and make doors, windows, seats, steering wheels, and everything else on the car a wear part.

Don't your Volvos have timing belts?

Yep. But I don't bother changing them.

Subarus have Tbelts. A Tbelt is not the end of the fucking world

Nope. But it is a big fucking inconvenience.

For a street car, who cares how much it weighs or technical details like valves per cylinder? Worrying about minutia like that is just intellectual masturbation-- gets you nowhere but makes you feel good.

By that logic, we should all get E30s with M10s then.

[Bimmerman325i]

This is a pointless argument.

Tbelts are not the end of the world, and 99% of people who drive a car with a tbelt don't care that it's not a timing chain- the dealer/shop replaces the belt when it's due, and later that day, they get their car back with a new belt and it's good to go for another 50-100k miles.

They aren't the end of the world, but if you're going to write off a whole segment of the automotive world just because of technical snobbery, go for it, I'm not going to stop you.

[Roland H]

They don't care, because they don't know better. Tbelts are like the biggest scam ever.

There should never be any timing-related engine part that is considered a wear part. The engine should be in need of an overhaul at the same, or long before the timing equipment needs overhauling.

[Bimmerman325i]

Many of them do know that some cars have timing chains. Most people aren't bothered by timing belts, since they know they need to replace them eventually.

Timing chains aren't flawless either. They wear, stretch, snap, wear down their tensioners/guides, and can bind.

M50s DO have thermostat and water pump issues. My buddy's 94 M50 killed two thermostats and a water pump, and he NEVER tracked it nor autocrossed it. Hell, he never revved it above 3k before it warmed up.

You also completely missed the point on intellectual masturbation. Fixating and fretting over technical minutiae (rear suspension designs, vehicle weight, valve/cyl count, hp/l, country of origin, etc) that don't affect the real-world big-picture is fucking stupid.

[Bimmerman325i]

Anyway, as fun as it is to argue pointless shit on the internet, I'm due for sleep. G'night, have fun.

[Bishop]

My god, when I'm not around this place goes to hell. Do I agree with you Roland? Sure, but was it a major inconvenience for me to spend a day and a half doing my own timing belt and becoming more familiar with my car? Nope... It woulda been done sooner if I'd had the right gasket. It's no skin off my dick

[M-technik-3]

This thread was about a COLOR?

[blefevre]

Welcome to the mountain section....

I got some leads on cars from some people though :)

[iamsam]

hah sorry brad, i guess I started all this... :nice:

well here is my argument for M42:

its dead reliable for me, and it gets good gas mileage (better than M20) without being painfully slow like an M10.

And for all those who argue that i put tons of work into my car and therefore unreliable, I will compile a list of motor-related maintenance I have done to my car for as long as I have had it:

timing chain tensioner: $30, 10 mins
t-stat: $17, 15 min
water pump: $60, 30 mins
spark plugs: $10, 10 mins
coolant temp sensors: $4, 5 mins
intake gaskets, new hoses, (mess under the intake stuff): $50, 30 mins
ICV: $8, 2 mins

Also, in my experience of swapping an M20 for a dead M20, adjusting valves on an M20, and replacing a water pump on another M20 car, an M42 is much easier to work on.

But I will acknowledge than a stock M20 car is significantly faster than a stock M42 car.

[tehwickerman]

my m42 car is nowhere near painfully slow with the ltw flywheel and mods i've done. I'd love to race basically any m20 car I see on the road.... m42 is definitely my preferred engine of choice, i've owned both, the 318 is a much more fun car all around. And mine actually sounds really good. m20 cars are still great for sure, but the 318is is definitely the way to go for non m3 e30's.

[iamsam]

cheers to a fellow M42 guy!!! And what mods have you done to your M42?

and also,


UP THE IRONS!