Robot Racecars

[MisterMiniS]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q1sk47FLAmg

I stole this from a cross post on Jalopnik just now, but it is a really neat video. Nothing at all surprising, but confirms what I say to my lady friend when she loses control when the back end steps out while AutoX'ing. I tell her I have a hard time explaining it because I never think about what I am what I am going to do to correct oversteer because it just happens subconsciously and I am consciously thinking about my next few cones and the subsequent setup. This video supports that logic, and I am sure that all of you feel the same.

The only thought provoking thing that I got out of this is who is faster around a race track; a human or a robot? How will that change over time?

My initial thoughts are that humans are faster, and this video confirms that. But we are not really that much faster. Out intuition combined, ability to learn, and the tingle feelings we get that an accelerometer cannot record make us faster than robots. But for how long? If we are assuming that there is only 1 fastest line per track and that these robots are nailing those lines, are they following them as fast as possible? Do they even know what is fastest? Are they basically cornering until they the friction changes from static to kinetic (aka, loss of grip), are they pushing it just a little bit but still have set limits? I have my guesses to those questions, but over time, I believe that they will be intuitive enough and adaptive enough to become EXTREMELY consistent drivers, but never the faster than the fastest humans. There is just something about driving and the associated feelings that I do not believe can be put into some lines of code or logic flow.

Thoughts?

[Roland H]

I've had similar thoughts about aviation, can a robot fly an airplane further to the limits of the flight envelope than a human, or how about making critical decisions regarding safety or emergencies?

The robot would A) have to have the ability to learn from experience and B) have similar experience to a human to even have a chance. However, experience could be translated from robot to robot seamlessly, and constantly.

[Bimmerman325i]

hehe. I have nothing to add, but that guy is my advisor.

[MisterMiniS]

Awesome!

[u3b3rg33k]

I've had similar thoughts about aviation, can a robot fly an airplane further to the limits of the flight envelope than a human, or how about making critical decisions regarding safety or emergencies?

The robot would A) have to have the ability to learn from experience and B) have similar experience to a human to even have a chance. However, experience could be translated from robot to robot seamlessly, and constantly.

Uhm, computers make certain types of fighter craft flyable:

http://www.eurofighter.com/capabilities/performance/aerodynamic-characteristics.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stealth_aircraft

Highly-stealth aircraft like the F-117 Nighthawk are aerodynamically unstable in all three axes and require constant flight corrections from a fly-by-wire (FBW) flight system to maintain controlled flight.

[Roland H]

Uhm, computers make certain types of fighter craft flyable:

http://www.eurofighter.com/capabilities/performance/aerodynamic-characteristics.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stealth_aircraft

Duh. I'm talking about making safe decisions, not flying the airplane. The F-16 also requires a computer to fly it when its under Mach1 too, else it wouldn't be stable. Computers can make cars driveable, doesn't mean they can make them safe.

[downforce22]

I think computers could eclipse racing drivers on a track. It would all have to do with the programming and input/output speeds of all of the sensors and motors.

If a computer can generate a 3D model of a simulation of airflow over a jet fighter simulating difficult maneuvers, there is no way a computer couldn't make the same decisions. AI or artificial intelligence is the same thing and is demonstrated in racing games such as GT5 and Forza. Given a certain layout with constraints for track size, layout, elevation, temp, etc etc etc a computer could calculate the best way around any certain track. This is no coincidence that it is the same racing line taken by race car drivers. Combined with temp sensors, other atmospheric sensors and the associated hardware to operate throttle, steering, and brake there is no reason why a computer couldn't be just as fast if not faster than real drivers.

Look at cruise control for example. That is a simple example but could be just one component integrated into a system that works together to program the entire 'AI'

The aircraft example Roland alluded to is a great example of computers making impossible calculations for humans, simple and straightforward. If a computer can keep an unstable aircraft stable it can definitely make faster calculations than a human driving a car. Fly by wire as it is known is an example of this. The same principle could be applied to a car quite easily.

For example the X-29 is an unstable aircraft that is stabilized by the aircraft's ecu and possible to be flown.

[Roland H]

That's not at all what I was alluding to though. Stability is not the same thing as critical thinking, or even close.

Can the computer manage risks and make decisions like the human mind when things don't go to plan. Imagine the airplane losing an engine, enroute to an island undergoing a tsunami ala Japan, with only a certain amount of fuel and human lives on board?

Alex always told me to fly the airplane to the crash site if the even ever arises, can a computer choose the optimal crash site? So many variables would have to be programmed in for nearly every single possible situation that it just doesn't seem possible. You could give it models to follow, but just like the weather models we have, a human is still necessary to the process.

What happens when the computer runs out of code for the situation and just goes into loop? or just gives up?

[downforce22]

I never disagreed with you, and as I mentioned everything must be programmed...

Mini asked who is faster around a race track, computer or human. And though a computer may not be able to do 'critical thinking' it can certainly sense and react faster than a human.

In adverse conditions (such as F1 in the rain) I honestly believe a car driven by a computer could be faster around a track than a human. Even faster than the 'best' human driver in the rain such as Ayrton Senna. Racing is a different story because as you said a computer cannot be programmed to decide whether or not it should go for a pass because it does not realize a mistake could cause death instead of victory. You could try to program it, yes. But if you know there is a safety programmed any human driver obviously could exploit that.

Computer controlled cars racing humans? Of course not.
Computer controlled cars faster than humans around a track? Definitely possible.

[MT325is]

Like you guys are saying what if the computer crashes? For example auto pilot. When something goes bad auto pilot can't fly... Humans are needed. I know this is bout race cars... But look at it this way. If we sometime get it into out everyday cars... What kind of fun will us people have that enjoy to drive the car to is full potential manually? I mean in the end he stated that... If we can learn from the computer... So if something goes bad... The computer won't let you control the car? Or you do a drift... Is the computer going to auto correct it? It also brings me to the new subaru thing called eye sight. Which it's like a camera and slows down for you to avoid accident. What happens a when you are going they traffic and there is a tight space that you can fit into... But yet you speed up to get closer to the guy and the eye sight slows you down? And then what? A accident because the computer thought you were gunna crash? I don't know if I like this to much!