Hartge Expert, Portland

[QUKBMER]

Raul is the Hefe of HARTGE info.

[G3531]

This appears to be true. He has been a very big help.

[ANDRÜ]

I smell a bakery

[G3531]

I smell a bakery

Hello, Andrew.

Would you mind explaining what this means?
From the context, I assume you're calling shenanigans?

[G3531]

Here's what I do actually know about the car.
323i
Mfg'd with M20
Manufactured 10/30/84
Registered 11/21/84
Dealer number is 02320 Munich, Germany
VIN is a Euro designation
A "Restricted Warranty" with the following code was also noted on the VIN decoder from BMW: "T-Tuning-FAHRZEUG"

Owner is assuring me that he has all documentation, and it's a matter of him getting it to me, to satisfy any skepticism. It is Saturday...

Like I said, I'll bring you guys a full report when I have all of the information.

[kronus]

interested to see photos but from what people are saying sounds like the owner has a pile of interesting parts attached to a basket case, sadly, probably not worth restoring if it's got major title discrepancies.

it is true, however, that Hartge and Alpina re-VINed some cars, but it is unclear if those cars would then have been grey market imported under the original VIN or the tuner one.

do you know when the car was imported or by who? that might answer some questions.

[G3531]

Interesting.

It was my understanding that at the time, Hartge was legally considered a tuner at Kohl BMW in Aachen, not a manufacturer (like Alpina). So they didn't issue unique VINs.
If this is true, I'd be interested in any sources you might have.

I'm hoping that all of these documents he's claiming to have involve original import papers. That'd sure take the mystery out of some of this.

[e30m3s54turbo]

On the m20 head by the thermostat and intake look for a Hartge stamp logo and the ecu should have Hartge sticker on it. You might have H23 head.

[Wschnitz]

I dont believe they have unique Vins, but I could be wrong, if said car was a real hartge it would be an H23 then.

[kronus]

http://e21.tricord.be/forum/view.php?view=5742 seems to suggest they got manufacturer status in 84, and here's a hartge vin plate:

[G3531]

The VIN only designates the form in which it left BMW.
Perhaps they outfitted it with the larger engine as part of the package?

[G3531]

Kronus, I believe that's just a serial plate.
That's not an actual VIN.
If they were a manufacturer, and not a tuner, they would have a unique VIN.

[kronus]

that's entirely possible. they offered 2.3, 2.6 and 2.8 motors depending on the years and such.

what used to happen with tuner-manufacturers is BMW would make incomplete e30s (that have VINs) and ship them to alpina/hartge, who would install their own parts and badging and re-VIN them using their own VINs, which would strike the original VIN out of the database in the process.

do you have any photos or listings of parts on it or anything?

[G3531]

Engine bay

[TimeMachinE30]

Sexy parts.