Northern NJ Coffee and Cars Saturday ams

[ZM Blue Devil]

Ill be there!

[achtunge30]

Ill be there!

Lies! :D

[ZM Blue Devil]

I was there in spirit...

[nmlss2006]

Yes while others SLAVED through the wilds of Jersey to be there!

[ZM Blue Devil]

Slaving in a 996tt, yes Im sure it was difficult...

[nmlss2006]

It was! Really! Sorta! Uh, nevermind... well, who's going to be there NEXT weekend?

[aproy]

im going to be there.

had a soggy-not-even-a-single-day-of-riding bike week in laconia. what a waste...

and if all goes well, goin to get a newer car tomorrow night.

have to check with 3 interested parties in my e30, before we start taking it apart to part out and sell...

i can still come to coffee and cars right??

[nmlss2006]

Sure you can but... parting out and selling? It looked so good.. what's going on?

[aproy]

thanks very much, but im going to try an e36 for a while...

[achtunge30]

thanks very much, but im going to try an e36 for a while...

I'm sure you'll be back...I love E36s but the QC on them was lacking compared to the overengineered E30. Also parts are much more costly. One day I'll have an E36 but I have no intention of getting rid of my E30 for one. :hitler::pimp:

[nmlss2006]

Having both.. I am not SO sure that the difference is that clearcut. The E36 is, dynamically, the better car, despite the heavier weight. There's no question there. And the VaNoS M5x/S5xs are better engines. The E30 is more 'fun' in a vintage kind of way, but I'm not sure I would prefer it as a DD.

[kishg]

not sure i agree luigi, of course i'm biased. a properly setup e30 will run circles around an e36 at the track.. i do it regularly :) DD, i prefer the e39 :)

[nmlss2006]

Well, let' start to define 'properly setup' and talk about driver differences: given the same 'proper setup', the same driver (or more accurately, the same level driver) and the same P/W ratio, especially if the power is high, I'd be very very surprised if it were otherwise, if for no other reason than because the difference in power-to-ground capabilities is embarassing. I have no doubt that you could run circles around *me* in a 328i or thereabouts, but running circles around the instructor I had may be a little optimistic for anyone in an E30 (P/W about there, 7.58 vs. 8.07, the E30 would have a 6.5% top end advantage, assuming stock-for-stock). This assumes stock cars with 'sports' springs/shocks and equivalent pads and tyres, of course. The E30 is certainly FUN, but taking it to the track demonstrated pretty evidently that it's been 26 years since 1983. I was very rusty and make no excuses, but the E30 doesn't have the suspension, the brakes, the engine or the space in the fenders to compete seriously with its younger sisters. It's an excellent car to learn (well - to a point, the power isn't sufficient to actually remind you of proper throttle discipline) but if you're looking for the fastest time around a track, there are (much) better choices. As evidenced by the whole BMW CCA management team in Porsches :).
Then of course there's the fact that the E36 is a LOT more forgiving of improper weight transfer (TM), which is a pretty desireable feature outside of a track. I'll have to disagree with you Kish, I'm afraid. Though I'll still take an E30 (a different one!) to the next CCA DE on the 8th.

[kishg]

apples to oranges.. we're not talking about p-cars here. or stock vs stock.. an e30 with coilover suspension and proper weight balance will out-handle the e36 in corners any day.. it's not in the straights where races are won. take a look at Mike AKard's CM e30 318. He is the CM champion btw. proper throttle discipline? trust me, at the limit of adhesion you don't need 300hp to learn that. As for the BMW CCA management team, that's DelVal, not NJ, NJ still rocks the real track car (e30 m3) :) See ya at WGI :)

[nmlss2006]

Are you sure it will outhandle an E36 with coilover suspension and proper weight balance? The rear suspension differences do not leave much margin for interpretation - unless you get the E30's rear to behave like the E36's multilink, something it cannot do, that's why multilink suspension was put toghether in the first place. Couple that with much more fender room and - as you just said yourself about throttle discipline - you have a pretty compelling recipe: if A can get out of a corner 20mph faster than B, the fact that B is 5mph faster at the apex of the corner (which he won't be, incidentally, pad results prove that even in stabilised conditions E30s have less grip) will be worth very little. But I understand religious issues and I will stop debating.
And finally, as to throttle discipline, try something like a 965: the lessons will be much quicker and more effective - one way or another :). See you at WGI :).
Stealth edit: as to Mr Akard's car... he runs a 318... with an S50B28 in it http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum...php?p=15008789. I rest my case :).