Suspension setup for the track

[Cbruh]

I'm looking to see what you guys have to say about different suspension's. I am looking for the best possible track setup. I have recently put bilstein shocks/struts on my car along with eibach pro kit springs but I want to up the game a lot. I'm thinking about rebuilding the shocks/struts for a stiffer spring rate, or debating on if I should get coils. The coils I would get are between h&r, st(kw), or isc's. Also have questions about how wide of a wheel/tire you guys use and offset. I am going to do some fender wprk as well. Thanks

[Bimmerman325i]

I'm looking to see what you guys have to say about different suspension's. I am looking for the best possible track setup. I have recently put bilstein shocks/struts on my car along with eibach pro kit springs but I want to up the game a lot. I'm thinking about rebuilding the shocks/struts for a stiffer spring rate, or debating on if I should get coils. The coils I would get are between h&r, st(kw), or isc's. Also have questions about how wide of a wheel/tire you guys use and offset. I am going to do some fender wprk as well. Thanks

There are a lot of posts on this subject, but as a quick primer:

Bilstein Sports + H&R Race springs is an excellent track suspension (it's the SpecE30 race suspension!) Koni Yellows + Springs is also a popular and good combo.

If you're looking to waste your money and hate your back/kidneys: JOM, BC Racing, Megan Racing, insert-fly-by-night-company-here, Raceland, Stance, etc. <$1000 price point. Buy springs and shocks instead.

If you want street suspension that is made for low and looks not fast and track: ISC/ST/KW V1, $1000 ish.

If you're looking for something adjustable in rebound and ride height: Ground Control SA or TC Kline SA or KW V2 or Bilstein PSS9, all between $1500-2000. AST I would put in this category if you can buy them any more.

If you're looking for affordable and good quality rebound and compression adjustment and know what that affects TC Kline DA, KW V3, GC DAs if they make them still. $2000-$3000

If you're looking for a premium single adjustable damper, or are looking to do this once and be done: MCS SA, JRZ RS1. $3000-$4000 for a complete kit

If you want premium damper capability with rebound and compression adjustments: MCS DA, JRZ RS2, Ohlins DA, $5000-$8000

If you're competing at the pointy end of the grid for actual money or championships: Same suspects, triple adjustables, $7000+

The more you spend, the better the damper is at controlling sharp bumps and blowing off over impacts, which translates to better grip. Better dampers also can be turned very soft and compliant for better rain/wet track grip. They also manage tire contact patch better. This is all with one huge caveat: the car and suspension must be set up properly, otherwise you've wasted your money and time.

None of the suspensions you list are appreciably better for someone starting to track their car than good springs and struts. You don't need coilovers until you've got quite a few track days under your belt, at which point you'll be more able to identify deficiencies in your car and solve them. And ISC/H&R coils have pretty much zero people running them hard and frequently, on track. There is a big reason why most track folk flock to the same three or four brands, depending on the price point.

Bolting on $10,000 suspension won't make the car any faster if you don't know how to drive; in fact, it will likely make it a whole hell of a lot harder to drive fast.

[TobyB]

best possible

for what?

If you're just learning, track it as it is first, and see how you do.

Because there are half a hundred 'best' ways to go, and they all depend
on you, and what you want the car to do.

But for serious track time, going to a 2 1/2" front spring with camber plates
is really about the first step AFTER you've ground the outside edge off a couple
of sets of tires.

t

[Cbruh]

Well the thing is I can get kw coils for $530 and isc's for $790. That's why I was considering those two.I haven't really heard of isc but my friend has the track dampering isc's on his 2.5RS and says they are really good. I uploaded some info about them. I've also heard really good things about kw. Kw makes the st coils. Anyway this is why I was considering getting them. I will be purchasing c1 15x8 wheels for my e30 as well:Dhttp://www.bavauto.com/fland.asp?part=B013&utm_source=google&utm_medium=c se&utm_term=B013-T-325ES-1988-656528&gclid=CjwKEAiAuea1BRCbn-2n7PbLgEMSJAABQvTTRubrSXIYe8WV4dFlEcCtMtQFUcgHnj6p h9XRFmTDERoC_Avw_wcB

[dkexige]

quick primer:

Good info, thanks.

[Emre]

The "best" track coilovers on a relatively low budget will be Ground Control with Koni Race dampers (DA if you can afford it; but SA is good enough probably).

Well the thing is I can get kw coils for $530 and isc's for $790. That's why I was considering those two.

The quality of the dampers is the most critical thing. Simple Koni SA (yellows) are better than low-end coilovers using junk dampers.

I haven't really heard of isc but my friend has the track dampering isc's on his 2.5RS and says they are really good.

Your friend sounds like someone who doesn't know enough about the subject to give any advice. Those ISC's are for the "street tuning" crowd...not serious track use.

[TobyB]

for what?

help us help you, here.

t

[Jb325is]

There are a lot of posts on this subject, but as a quick primer:

Bilstein Sports + H&R Race springs is an excellent track suspension (it's the SpecE30 race suspension!) Koni Yellows + Springs is also a popular and good combo.

If you're looking to waste your money and hate your back/kidneys: JOM, BC Racing, Megan Racing, insert-fly-by-night-company-here, Raceland, Stance, etc. <$1000 price point. Buy springs and shocks instead.

If you want street suspension that is made for low and looks not fast and track: ISC/ST/KW V1, $1000 ish.

If you're looking for something adjustable in rebound and ride height: Ground Control SA or TC Kline SA or KW V2 or Bilstein PSS9, all between $1500-2000. AST I would put in this category if you can buy them any more.

If you're looking for affordable and good quality rebound and compression adjustment and know what that affects TC Kline DA, KW V3, GC DAs if they make them still. $2000-$3000

If you're looking for a premium single adjustable damper, or are looking to do this once and be done: MCS SA, JRZ RS1. $3000-$4000 for a complete kit

If you want premium damper capability with rebound and compression adjustments: MCS DA, JRZ RS2, Ohlins DA, $5000-$8000

If you're competing at the pointy end of the grid for actual money or championships: Same suspects, triple adjustables, $7000+

The more you spend, the better the damper is at controlling sharp bumps and blowing off over impacts, which translates to better grip. Better dampers also can be turned very soft and compliant for better rain/wet track grip. They also manage tire contact patch better. This is all with one huge caveat: the car and suspension must be set up properly, otherwise you've wasted your money and time.

None of the suspensions you list are appreciably better for someone starting to track their car than good springs and struts. You don't need coilovers until you've got quite a few track days under your belt, at which point you'll be more able to identify deficiencies in your car and solve them. And ISC/H&R coils have pretty much zero people running them hard and frequently, on track. There is a big reason why most track folk flock to the same three or four brands, depending on the price point.

Bolting on $10,000 suspension won't make the car any faster if you don't know how to drive; in fact, it will likely make it a whole hell of a lot harder to drive fast.

The "best" track coilovers on a relatively low budget will be Ground Control with Koni Race dampers (DA if you can afford it; but SA is good enough probably).

The quality of the dampers is the most critical thing. Simple Koni SA (yellows) are better than low-end coilovers using junk dampers.

Your friend sounds like someone who doesn't know enough about the subject to give any advice. Those ISC's are for the "street tuning" crowd...not serious track use.

Great advice here! Pretty much sums up everything I was going to say. All of the chinese made stuff (BC, Megan, Fortune/Broadway, K-Sport, etc etc) is fine for the street and yes, you can drive around on it at the track but it will become a limiting factor sooner than a set of Koni's or Bilsteins would. If you already had a set I'd say go for it, you'll figure it out, but if you're buying something specifically to track the car just spend a little more money the first time and you will be happy.

Also, make sure you get adjustable swaybar endlinks and make sure you swaybars are clean/greased and not bound up... Corner balancing would be wise as well. A large percentage of people just buy coilovers, eyeball the ride height/measure the arches and go and it just doesn't work that way.

[Cbruh]

I currently have bilstien shocks/struts on the car with eibach pro kit lowering springs. I'm in between buying h&r race springs or isc coilovers. I know 2 people who know how to properly set them up for the track also. I can get the isc's for $790. Thsts the only reason why I'm considering them. I was looking on their page and looked them up for my car. Here's the info. Let me know what you think.

http://iscsuspension-na.com/bmw-suspensioncoilovers-e30-e90-z3z4-solutions/#!/BMW-E30-Adjustable-Coilover-Suspension-Kit/p/28352913/category=12617116

[Bimmerman325i]

You've asked this three times now, the answer hasn't changed.

They are cheap. Expect them to perform like cheap bottom-tier generic coilovers. They will damp bumps and suspend mass, but they will not be the same caliber as KONI yellows or likely Bilsteins+springs.

A full coilover kit, including springs, dampers, spring adjusters, camber plates, and shock mounts, that costs less than just good dampers does (aka...KONI/bilstein) will not perform on the same level or even close.

This doesn't mean go buy a $5k setup. This is to encourage you to think critically. How can they sell a full suspension for the cost of a set of Konis? What are you compromising on? Who else that tracks, seriously, in your model car, runs them? Do some research into what is available for your car, at your budget, and for your needs.

If all you want is to be low and get the mad instagram twitter likes and hashtags, those coils will work. If you want your car to handle well on a track and not suck on the street, I would look elsewhere and at roughly double that price point.

What is your budget? How will you use the car? Why do you think your current suspension is insufficient?

[Kev]

potstirBut ICS has track valving?

[Emre]

I currently have bilstien shocks/struts on the car with eibach pro kit lowering springs.

If you've already got Bilstein Sports on the car, then just buy Turner Motorsports "J-Stock" springs (copies of the old BMW Gruppe N springs). Then get some camber plates from K-Mac or Ground Control. Done. That's a proven, race-winning setup.

I can get the isc's for $790. Thsts the only reason why I'm considering them.

There's a reason why you can get them so cheaply.

I know 2 people who know how to properly set them up for the track also.

Anyone who recommends ISC obviously does not race. I would be very skeptical if they then turned around and claimed to "know how to properly set them up for the track."

Go to any BMW CCA CR, NASA, SCCA, or other race where people run BMWs. See how many people are on ISC coilovers.

[Jb325is]

^ Good advice on the Bilstein/J-stock setup, but you would need to have them re-valved for the J-stocks. Stock Bilstein Sport valving can't handle the J-stock rates. Good news is Bilstein re-valves are pretty inexpensive and you'd end up with a pretty awesome matched setup

[djjerme]

Before any of this or spending any money - how much "experience" do you have on track?

I can probably bet that the current suspension on your car is not what's holding it back..

Are you going to go actual "racing", or just be content with Track Days? Because going real racing (I mean wheel to wheel) is a whole different ball park from just turning laps as fast as you can..

More often then not, if you are making this jump, then there is restrictions on what you can use for setup. Notice I said setup. It's not just a matter of jamming some coilovers on an tossing the car around (though some of us pretty much do that anyways.) The entire car is a setup and affects handling: Suspension, weight placement, aero..etc.

Everything affects everything else.

How serious are you at this, and how much time and money are you willing to put in to this?

[Emre]

^ Good advice on the Bilstein/J-stock setup, but you would need to have them re-valved for the J-stocks. Stock Bilstein Sport valving can't handle the J-stock rates.

Not really. I ran stock Bilstein Sports with J-Stock springs for a couple of seasons before getting them revalved to Firehawk spec. I knew a few other guys who did this as well about 15 years ago when we were all pretty broke and trying to stretch every dollar.

I was doing 20+ track days a year in those days and did tons of street and track driving without any issues. As long as the Bilsteins are relatively new (not worn out), they'll hold up fine for quite a while.