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Old 12-03-2016, 04:57 AM   #16
Kershaw
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Originally Posted by mrsleeve View Post
They had their chance to deal with it but by not paying any attention to what was going on around them when it comes to pubic notices they have made their bed now its time to live with and lie in it.
Quote:
More to the point, the Standing Rock Sioux argue that under federal law, the US government should have consulted extensively with the tribe about these issues — and didn’t. On July 27, the Standing Rock Sioux and the nonprofit Earthjustice sued the Army Corps of Engineers in federal court, arguing that the agency had wrongly approved the pipeline without adequate consultation.

...

In their complaint, filed on July 27, the Standing Rock Sioux argued that the Army Corps of Engineers handed out water permits too hastily and only consulted with the tribe on a narrow set of potential impacts. (The tribe ended up sitting out much of the consultation process in protest.) The tribe also argued that Dakota Access used out-of-state experts to survey the lands beforehand, and so missed a whole bunch of culturally significant archaeological discoveries along the pipeline’s path.
http://www.vox.com/2016/9/9/12862958...pipeline-fight

Seems like their concerns have been getting ignored for awhile and they've been unhappy about it from the beginning. So your statement about now not being the time is null and void, they've been protesting it from the beginning. As they've continued to get ignored it's become a bigger and bigger issue. And that's usually the way anything works, from pipeline permits to headgaskets on an m20.

Also, the alternative pipeline routing being rejected because it was too close to the city's water supply but then routing it right next to the reservation is just mean. And really, it doesn't matter why theses pipes burst, it just matters that it does actually happen. It's not a matter of if, it's a matter of when. I wouldn't be happy about a pipeline that close to my land as well.
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Old 12-03-2016, 07:01 AM   #17
mrsleeve
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I bet there is a hazardous products line very close to you land..... and you don't even know it it seem's


Just because you don't like something does not mean you can scream like a spoiled child and still change the out come as well, if that were the case nothing would ever get built, renovated, technology developed medical inavation etc. Eithe. And again even if this was running across the res itself, it's still the corp of engineers that has the ya or nay say when it comes to infrastructure projects crossing Indian lands. Most will never will have any issues, so the "if but when statement" is also a very false statement you earth justice types like to push


Also construction was well under way on june 27th at the time of the attempted cease and desist lawsuit... The process form project submission for approval from the bureaucrats to when equipment hits the ROW, is a couple of year deal in most case for big jobs like the DAPL sometimes it takes a decade or even longer. So your point was just what again
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Old 12-03-2016, 06:08 PM   #18
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i was actually buying extra cold-weather gear in REI when one of the bags containing my gear got stolen from behind the counter while i was shopping. it contained my work laptop (which was the really fun part- because of the nature of my job, that thing has access to literally hundreds of millions of dollars, and millions of people's sensitive data), and all of the mission-critical electronics. verizon mifi for backup internet because they're using cell jammers, redundant charging options, some of my armor, all gone.

i tried to recover from the store and they couldn't help. so i had to make the decision to go without and let my coworkers handle the cleanup of the stolen laptop, or abort and deal with it myself.

i went with the latter.

my buddy just crossed the state line into SD, though.

don't know if this made news at the national level, but there was a fire at a warehouse party in oakland, where i live, last night. 9 confirmed dead, 25 still missing. these were my friends and fellow musicians.

i hope i don't ever have a day this fucked-up again.
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Old 12-03-2016, 07:04 PM   #19
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HOLY SHIT yeah thats been all over both of my news apps/feeds (fox had it up 1st that I saw)

Dude you have my condolences for your friends and I guess I am glad our differences played a part of keeping you out of that situation..... If there is anything I can do on that front let me know.

Naples I just saw your post I will reply to it tomorrow
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If a car is the epitome of freedom, than an electric car is house arrest with your wife titty fucking your next door neighbor.
The American Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers that it can bribe the public with the public's money. -Alexis de Tocqueville


The Desire to Save Humanity is Always a False Front for the Urge to Rule it- H. L. Mencken

Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants.
William Pitt-

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Old 12-04-2016, 12:42 AM   #20
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what kept me out of the situation is some fucking thief in san francisco.

don't think i'm entirely liberal; right now i would kill the person who took my backpack, given the chance.

i'm out over $2k of my own and i feel pretty obligated to pay back all the paypal donations, which are another $1.5k or so.

welcome to tactical operations. shit sucks sometimes.
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Old 12-04-2016, 06:15 PM   #21
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First formation was at 1200h.

We got notification of cessation of construction from the Army Corps of Engineers about 4 hours later.

Hooah, motherfuckers.
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Old 12-04-2016, 06:34 PM   #22
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^
You do know thats only going to last until Jan 20th right????? There is 3.79B spent and installed of a 3.8B dollar job. Is going to be built, it may be held up in the courts for a little bit but it going be completed dont fool your selves this all that has occurred is a delay in the inevitable . Or you me and the rest of the tax payers will get to repay E/T for the funds spent to build this thing, since the feds and the Corp Of Engineers are going to get the shit sued out of them and they are going to LOSE badly.

Quote:
Originally Posted by naplesE30 View Post
The weather is supposed to be extreme cold in the next week. Pack warmly. I dont have a dog in this fight, but as an outsider it seems very late in the game to be protesting.

Where are you working in FL sleeve?
Spread 6 of the Sabal Trail project, so Orland/Kissimmee more or less. I cant wait till this thing is over I am going to go nucking futs with the shear amount of fools around here that and its just plain to hot here for me. That traffic around Kissimmee is beyond nuts no matter what time of day it is.

Quote:
Originally Posted by naplesE30
We had a contractor put in an effluent water line to our golf course last year using hdpe pipe. It was a pretty educational experience for us. Def small potatoes compared to NG or oil but nonetheless, pretty neat to see them bore under creeks and such. I know those guys took it very seriously. A lot of $$$ can be pissed away with a simple mistake, so I can imagine the protocols in place for something with environmental consequences.
There is little difference in general from your HDPE water line install to the HDD under the lake/River on the DAPL, other than of course the greater scale of it all, and the issues that come with that. That said on Saturday we finished pulling in a 3400ish foot HDD, the 1st of 4 or 5 on our spread. Its a very very common practice and used all the time. Yes the amount of money it costs for a big bore long ass HDD is staggering they can cost 10's of millions when all said and done in some cases and thats if everything goes off with out a hitch, we had one in NY state a few years ago where it took nearly a year (357 days IIRC) from the rig set up to when it was finally pulled in and tied in as the last 2 welds on the spread.

Quote:
Originally Posted by naplesE30
Sleeve: What sort of measeres are taken to allow for shifting earth? Small earthquake etc. espc in underground sections. Engineering solutions fascinate me as I have very little engineering ability.
While we tend to think of a chunk of steel piping as rigid and stiff and very hard to flex, when you have several hundred feet of it you can get a great deal more flex and deflection than you would think out of it with in reason of course. (stick a bunch of PVC or electrical conduit together and you will get what I am talking about). The period of the energy waves of an earth quake are quiet long, and everything around the pipe is going to be moving at the same rate. With the very long period of the energy waves and the inherent elasticity of steel unless its a very massive earth quake or there is some type of shearing forces, like a hill side slip/landslide, large heaves, or massive settlement (like a mine chamber collapse or the biggest sink hole ever) most all welded steel pipelines are going to survive all but the most massive of quakes. In fact Columbia Gas (recently bought by Enbridge) has several lines in the WV/VA area scheduled next year to be brought above ground and put on limited service due to coal mining activity underneath them and the planned ground settlement when those mine chambers are collapsed. CA has has some very big quakes and very little pipeline damage occurs from them. The ones you would see the most damage on are the small distribution lines and services, because they are pulled out of or broken off at the structures they are tied on to.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fusion View Post
If a car is the epitome of freedom, than an electric car is house arrest with your wife titty fucking your next door neighbor.
The American Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers that it can bribe the public with the public's money. -Alexis de Tocqueville


The Desire to Save Humanity is Always a False Front for the Urge to Rule it- H. L. Mencken

Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants.
William Pitt-

Last edited by mrsleeve; 12-04-2016 at 06:43 PM.
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Old 12-04-2016, 08:24 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by camtns via reddit
Here's the Army Corps of Engineer's statement saying they will not grant the easement: https://www.army.mil/article/179095/...eline_crossing
They call for a full Environmental Impact Statement (EIS) with full public input and analysis. It's important to know that an EIS did not happen in the first place for this pipeline. This is for several reasons, chief among them that the Army Corps is using a process called a "nationwide permit" that provides a loophole for large projects like this to avoid a full EIS. The pipeline did do an "environmental assessment" which is a summary review of impact on environmental, cultural, archaeological, and other resources. Funnily enough, the company found DAPL would not significantly impact any of these things along its 1,100 mile route, and the Army Corps said OK.
Now, doing a full blown EIS means that there needs to be a substantive review of the actual impacts of the pipeline, its construction, and its maintenance on all sorts of resources (both ecological and cultural) from the discrete effects on certain portions to the overall effects of the whole project. An EIS requires full consideration and analysis of several alternatives (including not doing the project). The public has a chance to comment, as do other governmental agencies that Energy Access and the Army Corps ignored previously (like the Departments of Interior, Justice, and the National Historic Preservation Agency). Importantly, there is a requirement that the government engage in consultation with tribal governments that will be affected. It's rare for a full EIS to take less than a year.
On the ground, what this means is still unclear, but the pipeline company agreed to start shipping oil by January 1, 2017. If they miss that, not only do they have to pay penalties, but oil shippers and producers can cancel their contracts. Dakota Access will be subject to suit for contract breach and damages, and the longer it draws out, the less economic sense it makes to use the pipeline at all.
Lots of unknowns, but that is what this decision means at the moment for the company. The folks in the protest camps may decide to stay and protect, or may go home. I'm sure tonight they are going to have a traditional dance.
https://www.reddit.com/r/news/commen...rnate/dasf06j/

Quote:
Originally Posted by camtns
The Army Corps never ok'd the build across Lake Oahe, though it did for other crossings. The company started building before full approval (though many companies do).
So it appears that the company is a big bag of dicks, like most of us already assumed.

edit: It also means that the next administration can jerk this in any direction they choose.
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Old 12-04-2016, 11:11 PM   #24
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^
You do know thats only going to last until Jan 20th right????? There is 3.79B spent and installed of a 3.8B dollar job. Is going to be built, it may be held up in the courts for a little bit but it going be completed dont fool your selves this all that has occurred is a delay in the inevitable . Or you me and the rest of the tax payers will get to repay E/T for the funds spent to build this thing, since the feds and the Corp Of Engineers are going to get the shit sued out of them and they are going to LOSE badly.
well then i'll gear up and head out in january if i have to. VFSR isn't going anywhere.
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Old 12-05-2016, 02:59 AM   #25
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Trust me E/T had route approval from all regulator agencies before they started construction. Orginal application date was 12/14, and included all the nessary impact studies and public notices. Route approval is not the same as permitting for individual issues such as wet lands, rivers, lakes, rail roads, roads, etc... The permitting is generally handled by more local entities of those regulatory bodies. No company is going to build 97% of a 3.8B dollar project only to have 3000' of it not approved (Key Stone XL anyone). Permits are only good for x amount of time, and normally not pulled for something like this until they have too. The construction contractor planed to kick off with that drill, but pushed it back because of the idiots, Not because of permitting issues. They had the tenitive permitting and approval of the Corp of engineeres from the get go our they would not have laid the lined to that point along the river.

Whom ever your getting your info from is full of shit. Or cherry picking a technicality passing as something much bigger than it is.
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Originally Posted by Fusion View Post
If a car is the epitome of freedom, than an electric car is house arrest with your wife titty fucking your next door neighbor.
The American Republic will endure until the day Congress discovers that it can bribe the public with the public's money. -Alexis de Tocqueville


The Desire to Save Humanity is Always a False Front for the Urge to Rule it- H. L. Mencken

Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants.
William Pitt-

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Old 12-05-2016, 11:44 AM   #26
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Originally Posted by mrsleeve View Post
Trust me E/T had route approval from all regulator agencies before they started construction. Orginal application date was 12/14, and included all the nessary impact studies and public notices. Route approval is not the same as permitting for individual issues such as wet lands, rivers, lakes, rail roads, roads, etc... The permitting is generally handled by more local entities of those regulatory bodies. No company is going to build 97% of a 3.8B dollar project only to have 3000' of it not approved (Key Stone XL anyone). Permits are only good for x amount of time, and normally not pulled for something like this until they have too. The construction contractor planed to kick off with that drill, but pushed it back because of the idiots, Not because of permitting issues. They had the tenitive permitting and approval of the Corp of engineeres from the get go our they would not have laid the lined to that point along the river.

Whom ever your getting your info from is full of shit. Or cherry picking a technicality passing as something much bigger than it is.
Well it sounds like it's going to get a full EIS, it previously only had an EA performed, which is not as extensive and does not have "approval from all regulator agencies" like an EIS does.

Why didn't a pipleine project that goes under a water source require an EIS right off the bat?

the EA is located here:

http://cdm16021.contentdm.oclc.org/c...1coll7/id/2801
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Old 12-05-2016, 07:13 PM   #27
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Old 12-06-2016, 07:31 AM   #28
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Proof that protesting can get things done.
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Old 12-06-2016, 07:51 AM   #29
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Proof that protesting can get things done.
if the protestors had shown up with ar15's this would have been done weeks ago
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Old 12-06-2016, 08:00 AM   #30
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... heading down here to my job in FL because its too cold now...
I also want to know where in FL. If in the SoFlo area, come see us
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