Racing Dynamics m20 e30 headers

[LJ851]

Without getting to far into the voodoo that is header design, there is definitely such a thing as 'to large' a header. You want to evacuate the exhaust gases from the port as quickly as possible, and if your runners are to large it will slow down the velocity of the charge. So to just say that the MSDS must be better because they are larger isn't really truthful. Also, compared to the MSDS, the RD headers are much longer which can be beneficial, the collector is more gradual as are the bends leading up to the collector, and they are equal length.

You can tell that a lot more design went into the RD headers, whether it's worth it or not is up to you. For a stock engine the differences wouldn't be huge, but on a build engine where every last bit counts it could be noticeable.

The MSDS headers are going on a built 2.8 stroker. It will be dyno'd next year. I really want to run a stock manifold, then the MSDS setup to get a solid base of gains. I would REALLY love to dyno the RD ones too.

I can understand going too large will hurt the flow. Same effect with porting a head. I ported the head on the stroker that I built, so I believe matching the headers to the head will improve over stock.

Like stated above the 1.75 stock size is improved with the 2" RD collectors. But the MSDS headers are a PERFECT match to porting to head to the gasket opening. I dyed the edges and there is maybe 1mm overlap on the head(exhaust collectors are larger than head opening).

And anyone reading this PLEASE don't think I am bashing RD or saying anything neg about their product. There is no getting over how sexy they are.

I am personally all about gains and real world advantages. IMHO I would rather use the RD on a stock head. But the MSDS appear to have an advantage to a ported head.

What is the point to opening the head up if it is just going to cause flow blockage against the header collection? That is the very reason I ported to match the gaskets. And the gaskets match the collectors. In theory that would make a better flowing head.

Like stated above in my response, it is all about gains and real world numbers that you can see. So I will be posting a spread sheet in the future.

At the very least the RD ones will have a better throttle response and a better exhaust note. Right now I am taking Raceland mandrel bent M50 headers and fabbing them to work on my m20. Only difference is the flage sections that bolt to the head. They are a 2.5 collector as well, 304 SS and they have twisty collectors. So with a bit of cutting, welding you can have nice larger headers for under the price of MSDS ones.

If someone buys these please dyno your m20 before using the same exhaust system. Then again with the RD ones, I really would love to see the difference.

Same day before and after, on the same exhaust system.

All of this is pie in the sky dreaming without a dyno chart.

I have dyno'd some really ugly headers that made great power gains and beautiful headers that did not. Also, a lot of headers are designed to be larger than the exhaust port for anti reversion of exhaust gasses. Same basic concept as a stepped header.

[F34R]

The MSDS headers are going on a built 2.8 stroker. It will be dyno'd next year. I really want to run a stock manifold, then the MSDS setup to get a solid base of gains. I would REALLY love to dyno the RD ones too.

I can understand going too large will hurt the flow. Same effect with porting a head. I ported the head on the stroker that I built, so I believe matching the headers to the head will improve over stock.

Like stated above the 1.75 stock size is improved with the 2" RD collectors. But the MSDS headers are a PERFECT match to porting to head to the gasket opening. I dyed the edges and there is maybe 1mm overlap on the head(exhaust collectors are larger than head opening).

And anyone reading this PLEASE don't think I am bashing RD or saying anything neg about their product. There is no getting over how sexy they are.

I am personally all about gains and real world advantages. IMHO I would rather use the RD on a stock head. But the MSDS appear to have an advantage to a ported head.

What is the point to opening the head up if it is just going to cause flow blockage against the header collection? That is the very reason I ported to match the gaskets. And the gaskets match the collectors. In theory that would make a better flowing head.

Like stated above in my response, it is all about gains and real world numbers that you can see. So I will be posting a spread sheet in the future.

At the very least the RD ones will have a better throttle response and a better exhaust note. Right now I am taking Raceland mandrel bent M50 headers and fabbing them to work on my m20. Only difference is the flage sections that bolt to the head. They are a 2.5 collector as well, 304 SS and they have twisty collectors. So with a bit of cutting, welding you can have nice larger headers for under the price of MSDS ones.

If someone buys these please dyno your m20 before using the same exhaust system. Then again with the RD ones, I really would love to see the difference.

Same day before and after, on the same exhaust system.

[tinkwithanr]

You did not correct anything;

The MSDS headers are bigger and a shorter shot out vs the smaller RD headers. I can see the gain to long tubes, but these are not long tubes.

So again, what is the point of the extra cash for a smaller header?

From your ending quote, I gather it is just to have it etc. Nothing wrong with that.

Without getting to far into the voodoo that is header design, there is definitely such a thing as 'to large' a header. You want to evacuate the exhaust gases from the port as quickly as possible, and if your runners are to large it will slow down the velocity of the charge. So to just say that the MSDS must be better because they are larger isn't really truthful. Also, compared to the MSDS, the RD headers are much longer which can be beneficial, the collector is more gradual as are the bends leading up to the collector, and they are equal length.

You can tell that a lot more design went into the RD headers, whether it's worth it or not is up to you. For a stock engine the differences wouldn't be huge, but on a build engine where every last bit counts it could be noticeable.

[fporro]

^^ I'll try to answer your dual headed question with one shot.

- Headers were designed as such not just for looks, race teams don't do that.
- As such and due to their complexity they cost more to produce.


For a superior header shootout you'll need...

- stock engine
- 2.7 stroker
- 3.1 stroker
- short, mid and long headers

take above, run each set of headers on each engine, at least 3 runs each., print out data. shared it with us on a new thread.

[reelizmpro]

Hmmm turbo? Are u doing a remote mount turbo or something?

[F34R]

F34R,
I'll correct previous post by adding this data...

- K27 Motors, they are 2.7 liter versions of the 325i M20 motors
- Max horsepower is 214HP and
- Max torque is 270Nm at 4.500 RPM.

It should give you an idea of what they can help you achive.

once some one said... perceived value variables from one person to another are beyonde reasanoble parameters of logical calculous rules...

You did not correct anything;

The MSDS headers are bigger and a shorter shot out vs the smaller RD headers. I can see the gain to long tubes, but these are not long tubes.

So again, what is the point of the extra cash for a smaller header?

From your ending quote, I gather it is just to have it etc. Nothing wrong with that.

[fporro]

how did i miss this!?

whats the status on this?

dvck, they're are 100% ready for shipment.
Please contact Robert at E30 Motor Werks (714) 398-8405 or pm me or visit http://e30motorwerks.com/smf/index.php?topic=4.0

thanks,
Frank

LOL@ the "go wide" sticker in the engine bay of that vert.
So what are the gains of these VS let's say MSDS headers? RD ones are sex though, just wondering if there is REAL gains for the price of three sets?
I am going turbo do these don't mean anything to my build. Just wondering is all.
MSDS is 2.5 connection pipes to a 3" collector.

F34R,
I'll correct previous post by adding this data...

- K27 Motors, they are 2.7 liter versions of the 325i M20 motors
- Max horsepower is 214HP and
- Max torque is 270Nm at 4.500 RPM.

It should give you an idea of what they can help you achive.

once some one said... perceived value variables from one person to another are beyonde reasanoble parameters of logical calculous rules...

[F34R]

LOL@ the "go wide" sticker in the engine bay of that vert.

So what are the gains of these VS let's say MSDS headers? RD ones are sex though, just wondering if there is REAL gains for the price of three sets?

I am going turbo do these don't mean anything to my build. Just wondering is all.

MSDS is 2.5 connection pipes to a 3" collector.

The collectors are 2.5" and your stock pipes are 1.75, so a pretty large difference. The connection pipes will be 2" so you can have a shop expand your stock pipe .25" and weld directly or use 2" flanges to your pipes. Having the connection pipes will make this a lot cleaner installation.

[dvck]

how did i miss this!?

whats the status on this?

[325ix]

Congratulations, you make NO SENSE.

I'm still trying to figure out what the hell he is saying.

[MR 325]

GREAT HEADERS... If your turbo'd...

Congratulations, you make NO SENSE.

[fporro]

GREAT HEADERS... If your turbo'd...

Racing Dynamics naturally aspire K27 2.7L engines were rated at 208hps.

Same headers made by the same company., so, what you're saying is ???

[EDirtyZ]

GREAT HEADERS... If your turbo'd...

[e30slidewayz]

I have a set of long tube headers I'm about to install with midpipes to go with. I was wondering whether or not to go with the midpipes or not... looks like it's a go :)

[fporro]

RD Headers, resonators and Super Sprint muffler.

As far as intake, it has dbilas itb's, miller maf / war chip.

she's running a bit rich and high at 1,100 to 1,200 rpm's on vid., ill try to lower rpm a bit.