lol

[ForcedFirebird]

Who cares about the fulcrum at the spring perch... we're talking about measuring from each end... Its not like he said crank your coil adjuster up precisely 12mm and see what happens, everything has been referenced by the height of the body and comparing it to the subframe.


Try your drawing again. The wheel is a fixed point, the only variable is the subframe height. Its actually exactly like picking the car up 12mm.

The wheel is not the fixed point in the drawing, the spring is. I only drew the wheel to represent the parts. The end of the red/green and blue lines are the wheel to TAB centers, and are there to represent the angle of the trailing arm in relation to the body. You have to care about the spring being the fulcrum. When you change the pivot in relation to the chassis/upper spring perch, it's NOT like picking the entire car up, because when you raise ONLY the sub-frame, the spring perch stays the same in relation to the body. When you raise the pivots, the angle of the trailing arm changes MORE than the natural swing of the trailing arm.

Until someone can produce facts/drawings/formulas, it's assumption.

[gkurey]

All I have to say, is that I installed these this weekend and it worked really well! I had about -4 deg camber on each side and while I have no official measurements for the rear, they are near parallel to my front wheels which are around -1.5. Great product.

[mikeday]

The wheel is not the fixed point in the drawing, the spring is. I only drew the wheel to represent the parts. The end of the red/green and blue lines are the wheel to TAB centers, and are there to represent the angle of the trailing arm in relation to the body. You have to care about the spring being the fulcrum. When you change the pivot in relation to the chassis/upper spring perch, it's NOT like picking the entire car up, because when you raise ONLY the sub-frame, the spring perch stays the same in relation to the body. When you raise the pivots, the angle of the trailing arm changes MORE than the natural swing of the trailing arm.

Until someone can produce facts/drawings/formulas, it's assumption.

I know what you trying to convey, but your making it way more difficult than it needs to be. For the purpose of this discussion the spring does not need to exist.

Think of it this way, we took the springs out with the car on a lift and are cycling the suspension (common practice in the offroad world where geometry is actually complicated) If we cycle it through its limits you can measure the camber change. The camber change will be the same in relation to the subframe every time, all the time. So, if you raise the subframe up into the car or raise the car it makes no difference, the subframe and trailing arm relation hasn't changed.

We aren't arguing that it does or doesn't change camber, just that 4.5 degrees cant be right.

You keep going by the assumption that people on here will keep the springs the same.. This is R3V here, everyone will just crank the adjusters down until the wheel gap is back to how it was..

[ForcedFirebird]

Are you saying this possibly can't be 4 degrees difference?

http://www.e30tech.com/forum/showpost.php?p=1214403&postcount=20

[silence]

All I have to say, is that I installed these this weekend and it worked really well! I had about -4 deg camber on each side and while I have no official measurements for the rear, they are near parallel to my front wheels which are around -1.5. Great product.

Nice, glad you're happy. :) Let us know if you get the chance to take the car to an alignment shop.

[mulletman]

All I have to say, is that I installed these this weekend and it worked really well! I had about -4 deg camber on each side and while I have no official measurements for the rear, they are near parallel to my front wheels which are around -1.5. Great product.

What suspension setup are you running? How low is the car?

[kalib0y]

great parts from these guys!

[F34R]

What suspension setup are you running? How low is the car?

Damn you are lazy, he has his build thread in his signature. He is running BC coilovers.

[mulletman]

Damn you are lazy, he has his build thread in his signature. He is running BC coilovers.

I saw that... but the fact that someone has height-adjustable coil-overs doesn't really answer the question of how low the car is...

;)

[ForcedFirebird]

4-4.5*!? Do you have a before and after alignment sheet proving that? That's a huge reduction from just 12mm

-2.4* on an alignment rack after install is confirmed. .1 degree different than my measurement.

[Simple_Smith]

I'm just surprised that little discussion didn't get in to name calling and other vulgarities. That's pretty impressive for R3v.

p.s. I'm looking into running just about all of condor's bushings/mounts in my car. awaiting reply email

[ForcedFirebird]

I'm just surprised that little discussion didn't get in to name calling and other vulgarities. That's pretty impressive for R3v.

p.s. I'm looking into running just about all of condor's bushings/mounts in my car. awaiting reply email

You will not be disappointed...

[MonkeyMadness]

I'm just surprised that little discussion didn't get in to name calling and other vulgarities. That's pretty impressive for R3v.

p.s. I'm looking into running just about all of condor's bushings/mounts in my car. awaiting reply email

You will not be disappointed...

X2 on this^

I'm in the process of converting our 2nd E30 to full Condor cause the first one impressed us Soo Much!
One of the best things you can do for yourself as much as for your ride..

Nothing but Happy! :up:

[silence]

THanKS GUYS!

SIMPLE_SMITH, check your email ;)

[CHIF8008]

although i have already bought a kit like this i always get caught up with how this works. why couldn't one just put spacers in? (under the stock bushing) i had tried this years ago when i originally lowered my car but it never "raised up" the sub-frame. it kinda just pushed the lower mount lower and make it harder to get the side bracket on.

so then is the top part of the mount shallower to let it sit higher? because from my experience- making it(the bushing) thicker on the bottom did not work. im assuming it a little of both but id like to see a stock mount in a side by side photo with the raiser ones. thanks