Massive Brakes - Stay Away!

[briansjacobs]

BTW if the kit used wilwood brakes, the rebuild kit is $9 and I think should be done once a year.

[Imagine_M]

I Think Proof was the word I used?...

As for lee being unresponsive there wasn't anything more to say it was clear he stated his answer.

And as for mr F... why so rude and name calling makes your business look like lil kids.

[briansjacobs]

yet one more issue as it was a used street kit that had under admission had seen heavy track use, may be the calipers need to be rebuilt. I am not trying to take sides here but it sounds like OP is just trying to throw parts at the problem and hope that it goes away. If you feel the part should be warrantied explain why, not "because it is a customer service issue" but because "I measured the rotor all the way the way around and it varried from x-y or we put a straight edge on it and it was clearly warped, her is a high res picture for you consideration"

when I had problems with rocker arms wearing out I took high res pictures of them sent them to supplier and they promptly returned my money. But I provided proof, not my word, but proof the product was faulty.

Did the op send the rotors back to the supplier for examination?

[Massive Lee]

Here are the first exchanges between Brendan and myself

Hey Lee,
So I ended up selling off my street kit to one of my customers to pay for the body work on my shell (basically, it's an excuse to get a race kit once I start putting the car together) but he's complaining of a shimmy now. I guess it appeared a few days after installation although in all honesty I didn't really feel it when I drove the car. As they say though, the customer is always right, so I figured I'd talk to you about warrantying out the rotors (they're you're new two-piece street kit rotors) or finding something to suggest to the customer to make him happy. I balanced the wheels and that didn't seem to fix it...
Thanks Lee!
~Brendan "

My first reply.

Originally Posted by Massive Lee
Hi Brendan
Whay makes you think the problem is with the rotors? Could it be with the car's suspension, which is the usual culprit? Loose balljoints, wrong alignment.
Lee

Brendan's

"Because we've been doing this for 15 years Lee... We also just overhauled the whole front end so and the shimmy wasn't there before the brake install. Like I said, I'm not convinced the problem is really a problem but it's still a customer service issue that I have to address...
Thanks!
Brendan"

"Hi Brendan. I fully undserstand the idea of customer service, but before I change rotors, I have to make sure they are the problem. There might be an uneven layer of transfer, they might be warped. If the guy had braked hard repetevily then kept the car still with the brakes applied, there's now some shit cooked in the rotor. Have ou measured if there was some run-out on the rotor?

Lee"

"My boss went over them and assured me they were warped. I'm sure the hats are fine, we just want to swap out the rotors. I'll order a set of street pads too, the car won't be seeing as much track time as mine would have so the track pads aren't needed.

Thanks!
Brendan"

And so on, and so on. Basically. When Brandon had the kit, there was no problem at all and he was very satisfied. Then he sells the parts. His customer complains about vibrations, Brendan tests the car and sees no vibration at all but claims I should replace the rotors anyway to make HIS customer happy. Then claims his boss said the rotors were warped. Strange, as Brandon never felt anything. But is claiming the discs are warped while saying there's no vibration at all is a good enough excuse to get new rotors? I don't think so. There's something fishy in this story because if the rotors had indeed been warped, an expert mechanic like Brendan would have noticed right away.If new rotors are unproprly bedded-in (especially with track pads) then some uneven deposits could have altered the rotor's surface. What really happened? I don't know.

I have several sets of rotors here. Some even being gold anodized for testing. It would have been eay t get rid of this irritation and broom the problem under the carpet just by sending a set of discs. But there's one problem. The rotors are clearly not at fault (how come then suddenly the boss reports they are warped when Brendan says they are okay and he feels no shimmy). Somebody isn't telling me everything.

BTW There's no reason for this thread to turn into a name calling contest. I have no grief either against Brendan. I just wished he had sent new owner directly to me instead of simply protecting his ass as a self-appointed Massive distributor...

Peace to all.

PS Can't wait to showcase the new 14" (355mm) e36 kit with AP Racing calipers.

[kishg]

I'd never buy from him due to years of America bashing, judgmental Canadian posts from him but that is another issue totally.

lol. then your not going to get too far in any business dealings in the real world with that attitude. trash talk on off-topic/pr is one thing and business is another. I would not blacklist a vendor simply because they had a different personal opinion on something than me. i've never bought anything from lee (well maybe a dead pedal) but i've only heard good things about his product and service from lots of folks whose opinions I trust.

[KenC]

Brendan, did you put a dial gauge on the car to measure disc runout? If not, then I would say you don't have much of a case, and your post borders on libel.

Word.

[KenC]

Can it be proven that the rotors were/are indeed warped? That would settle all arguments. Vibration doesn't necessarily mean warped rotors. In fact, that wouldn't even be first on my list of things to check.

[Pudmunkie]

There were probably better ways to handle the situation on both sides.

For me personally I'll be avoiding Massive due to Lee's behavior when UUC released their brake kits; not very professional.

[kishg]

Your religion still pretty dope? I'm doing a term paper on ancient religions, and Jainism isn't on the list, so I might be studying up on your ways. lol


Back to the two sided thread.

ummm i'm an atheist, so yeah, it's pretty dope :)

[kishg]

It is not at all appropriate to ask a customer to deal with a parts supplier directly and Lee, you of all people should know this. To suggest otherwise is absurd. This install was backed by AVA Restoration as a company and has been handled as such

Are you or AVA Restorations a Massive Brakes supplier/distributor?

[psyber_0ptix]

i'd be interested in seeing the PM's that were sent between the two. That way we can see the true drama behind this argument. PrintScreen!

[accident]

subscribed.

[Fidhle007]

We do all the first test drives EXACTLY so this shit doesn't happen.

[z31maniac]

I'll just thrown in I never had a problem with Lee's service or kits, and I've bought two.

Both of those kits are now being used by other members on this board.

Was it ever considered that the customer didn't bed in the kit properly? The Stoptech article comes to mind.....

[Fidhle007]

I have replied to Brendan to two of his first email within perhaps a few hours after he PM'd. He explained he sold to one of his customer (or in exchange for other parts or service) his old kit and his new hats and rotors. Then after a while HIS customer complained about vibration. Brendan clearly said he drove the car and felt no vibration at all and that everything was measured within specs, but that just to make his customer happy, I should give him free rotors...

I asked for more details as two rotors won't warp all together as a production deffect. Only one would be affected, or the whole batch of rotors would be bad ( and it never happened). Then he also wanted me to replace the pads. If rotors have warped, it is strictly because they have been abused. Am I supposed to send rotors just for that? What promise did Brendan give his customer about what the kit can do? There must be a reason why I offer different front and rear kits.

Basically, I never had any communication with the owner of the parts. Brendan behaved as if he was an approved distributor. When I asked for more details, then it took weeks to get them.

Sorry Brendan, I am not giving away rotors for free just to cover YOUR customer. Why hasn't the new owner of the kit never contacted me? And not by PM, but by email? In 8 years I only had two bad sets of rotors. The first one because the owner decided to abuse brand new rotors with race pads without even bedding the rotors in. The thermal shock was enough to warp the rotors. The owner understood his fault. The second set of "bad" rotors was with Kurzbimmer and the VW Corrado rotors. Both rotors cracked pretty bad and these were replaced by Racing Rotors.

Third occurence is YOUR customer. And your excuse that I shall give free discs on the sole premise that I should keep him happy whatever wrong he did with the brakes made me laugh. And I told you about.

BTW Interestingly, in this thread you haven't even considered asking others how could brake go wrong or even consider the driver's mistakes. No brake is undestructible. I make 15" kits with AP Racing calipers. And yes, discs can warp if you do a hot lap, pit in without cool down lap and keep the brakes on in the paddock with the rotors glowing red... Warp or cook bad deposits on the rotors

The new owner should contact me. Has he even considered this option?

First and foremost, I offered to BUY A SET of pads to help offset the shitty situation because I know you aren't WorldPac. Second, I said I drove the car and felt the vibration was minimal but perceptible and I was beholden to appease my customers. The rotors were brand new and the car has never seen anything but mild street driving so this was certainly not an issue of "pitting after a hot lap."

My company has been building, prepping and restoring cars for nearly 15 years and when customers come to us, they come to us, not our suppliers. It is not at all appropriate to ask a customer to deal with a parts supplier directly and Lee, you of all people should know this. To suggest otherwise is absurd. This install was backed by AVA Restoration as a company and has been handled as such which is why I expect you to behave as an owner of your company, not some thick-headed punk who talks shit on forums. You have completely misrepresent our communication and we both have the PM records to prove it so next time try actually READING what I've written, huh? Or is that too complex for you?

This process is simple. Install brakes. Customer complains, verify complaint is valid. Contact supplier for replacement parts. Install replacements, return defective parts. Shit happens Lee, I don't care if you've never had bad rotors before but they exist. Try working on cars in the real world for a little while and see what you see...