N52 Swap Discussion

[nando]

I'm going to be running at least the PT-CAN [edit: this is wrong. D-Can, not PT-CAN to the cluster) to a connector to be able to plug in a Z4 cluster (partially because it looks like its so easy, but also because it might be a route for getting a check engine light... the CEL in the z4 cluster is it's own standalone symbol (not in the main LCD) so it may be possible to just light the e30 dash light from that trace.

Slightly more digging... That L-CAN runs to the OBD plug directly on the E83 X3...

https://www.newtis.info/tisv2/a/en/e...si-sav/weByGnM

based on this description, it's 50x faster than the K-line:

https://www.newtis.info/tisv2/a/en/e...system/20IcTCM

Is there any practical use for this? From the pins it looks like it would be ISO 15765? Does the Z4 software (int the DME flash) even support that protocol?

yeah, it's faster - but, it doesn't make a big difference. Flashing the calibration for MSV70 over K-line only takes like 30-60 seconds anyway.

You can't actually have K-line active with D-CAN, and AFAIK, the Z4 calibration only uses K-line for the DME.

[hubcapboy]

Real-time update: Here's the useful parts of the IVM module from the Z4/X3. This is part number 12637560626:



And I expect it'll replace most of, if not all, of this harness:



Which is a complete mess that I'd just stuff into a box. I was HOPING that this box would have one set of connectors for dash, C101, and power supply, and another set for DME and engine harness (so it was a clean interface between the car and the engine) but that doesn't seem to be the case. Fuse 2 seems to power some stuff that we don't have (DSC, Ebox fan, etc). If the wire run is less than 4' it could be a 15 amp, so I left it in case there was more to power. Pin 13 highlighted in yellow is unfused power to the transmission controller. Weird that it wouldn't be fused here, but whatever. I'll leave it in for now in case I have more than 10-15 amps to add (which I'd stick on Fuse 2)

There may be enough pass-throughs on this junction board to put everything else that goes out to the C101 (like the oil pressure switch, tach). It would be nice if all the C101 connections went here rather than just disappearing to tapped DME wires. (for instance, the tach signal has to go to OBD and C101... they could split here). We'll see.

[hubcapboy]

I'm going to be running at least the PT-CAN [edit: this is wrong. D-Can, not PT-CAN to the cluster) to a connector to be able to plug in a Z4 cluster (partially because it looks like its so easy, but also because it might be a route for getting a check engine light... the CEL in the z4 cluster is it's own standalone symbol (not in the main LCD) so it may be possible to just light the e30 dash light from that trace.

Slightly more digging... That L-CAN runs to the OBD plug directly on the E83 X3...

https://www.newtis.info/tisv2/a/en/e...si-sav/weByGnM

based on this description, it's 50x faster than the K-line:

https://www.newtis.info/tisv2/a/en/e...system/20IcTCM

Is there any practical use for this? From the pins it looks like it would be ISO 15765? Does the Z4 software (int the DME flash) even support that protocol?

[nando]

Speaking of pinology...

I’m stripping the unneeded (auto trans, fuel tank pressure, AC compressor, HVAC) wiring out of a Z4 IVM. I think it’s going to be a much better solution than using the “power harness” from the 330i.

I

1) don’t know which data bus is on pin 22 and pin 44 of x60005 on the msv70... it’s called “L_CAN” on the diagrams, and isn’t connected to the Z4 chassis

and

2) Dont know if it’s valuable to make connections here.

The PT-CAN connections are on X60001

https://www.newtis.info/tisv2/a/en/e91-318i-tou/repair-manuals/61-general-vehicle-electrical-system/20IcTCM

I'm pretty sure you don't need any CAN bus at all, except possibly PT-CAN or K-CAN if you're going to interface with an external module. Even the obd port is only wired for K-line instead of K-CAN on the Z4 and 330i.

[hoveringuy]

Here's my power harness. I have a standard DME relay and a fuse box for a trailer connection. I just need to remember that "Light" ="Injectors/Coils" and "Horn" = "Coolant Pump", etc. I'll probably revise this in the future to be prettier but it's fine for now.

I'm missing an EKP and need to connect the throttle pedal, that's it. The wiring is actually simple once you understand what's going on and I'm glad Gareth is documenting.

I'd love to connect my OBD plug but I'm not sure how the MSV80 computer I have plugged in connects to the plug, Nando's loving hands will convert the MSV70 that I have with him to the Z4 bus protocol.

[hubcapboy]

Speaking of pinology...

I’m stripping the unneeded (auto trans, fuel tank pressure, AC compressor, HVAC) wiring out of a Z4 IVM. I think it’s going to be a much better solution than using the “power harness” from the 330i.

I

1) don’t know which data bus is on pin 22 and pin 44 of x60005 on the msv70... it’s called “L_CAN” on the diagrams, and isn’t connected to the Z4 chassis

and

2) Dont know if it’s valuable to make connections here.

The PT-CAN connections are on X60001

https://www.newtis.info/tisv2/a/en/e91-318i-tou/repair-manuals/61-general-vehicle-electrical-system/20IcTCM

[LukeJ]

I'm glad y'all understand this pinology... I'm just a neanderthal that fits engine components together like big-kid legos.

I'm right there with you on this statement. :-)

[Bored]

I'm glad y'all understand this pinology... I'm just a neanderthal that fits engine components together like big-kid legos.

[nando]

Yeah, I was talking about terminal 15. it's confusing because there's that "start" signal from the CAS, which the Z4 obviously doesn't have. There's a different code branch that specifically deals with it, but it's only activated in BN2000 mode.

[hubcapboy]

Yowzaaaaa.

I'm not trying to prove you wrong, just making sure that when you say "it needs that pin to be able to start" that I take it seriously and don't have a(nother) mysterious reason this thing won't start in 5-6 years when I turn the key :)

[nando]

BTW, This is what the startup subroutine looks like.. yeesh.

[nando]

one thing to keep in mind is there are no hardware differences - it's all software.

The wake-up signal is pin 1 on the X60002 - that needs to go to the ignition switch (terminal 15). I agree that nothing from the CAS needs to be connected, but I don't think it would hurt anything either. I am sorry for causing the confusion, it's been a long time since I looked at the pinout and was going by memory late at night..

[hubcapboy]

Wire it to the ignition switch. The engine will not start without this signal.

Actually, if you think about it, the E30 even functions in a similar way. The ignition is not directly activated by the key - the key triggers a circuit in Motronic, which in turn activates the main relay and then physically powers the DME, coil, etc.

OK... Circling back to this.... I have notes on this from a month back. There's a connection to CAS on the 330i pinout, but not on the Z4, so I didn't end up adding this to my diagram since we're using the Z4 DME software:

https://www.newtis.info/tisv2/a/en/e85-z4-3.0si-roa/ZCDV80b

Pin 2 on the Z4 X60001 is unused, and the DME isn't on the starter circuit:

https://www.newtis.info/tisv2/a/en/e85-z4-3.0si-roa/components-connectors/plug-in-comb-type-solder-connectors/connectors-from-x6/x60556-adapter-611491/qCNw2b0

Compare this with the e90 330i where it's listed as "signal, engine start"

https://www.newtis.info/tisv2/a/en/e90-330i-lim/Fv6vGqhm

And on the component diagram there's certainly a trace from CAS to the DME, but it's *not* tapped from the +12V starter signal, which is pin 22 on the CAS... the DME connects to pin 28 on the CAS.

I had this noted as "probably a problem" because if this is some kind of permission to start from CAS to the DME, the chances of it being just another ignition switched power are pretty slim. If Nando's coded out the need for any CAS interaction, If we don't know what the DME expects on that pin, I wouldn't jump to conclusions and feed it 12v.

[nando]

Oh!

I just mean it was an example of a failure that could only be detected if the DME knew you were trying to crank the engine, but that it wasn’t turning over. I don’t know if it’s even one that this computer checks for.

This isn’t a build thread, but does it make sense to go back and edit and link the current version of a few key documents to the first post? It would make more sense to do that rather than re-post or link to the post every time the question’s asked. I have full pinouts for the 330i from both Bentley and TIS and the Z4 pinout from TIS tabulated with images of the connectors that I could stick there for reference. Do older posts get locked for editing?

I don't think so. I've edited some pretty old posts!

[nando]

That's what my question .boils down to. Does wake up or start trigger the DME relay? If it's wired to pin 18 that means it's only getting power while cranking (and then not getting power).

C101 Pin 5 is IGN which would make more sense if it energizes the relay.

heh, clear as mud? I guess ignition can mean two things, cranking or running. I actually think it might work with either temporary power or constant once started. I should experiment on the bench.