S50 euro vs S50 US

[gobuffs]

Seriously, also the way the engine handles track duty is very, very different. I'm not suggesting you DO this, but you can buzz a solid lifter engine a bit over redline with a "money shift" and get away with it... no way on the hydraulic M50 versions.... everyone and their grandmother knows that term. I know someone that saw 9K on his 3.2 with valves still in good shape.

it was 9302 and compression and leakdown numbers were perfect after. Still racing the motor a year and a half later. The motor has been bulletproof (knock on wood) in the 5 years I have been running it. A few common maintenance parts here and there but nothing major.

[M3 euro ltw]

it was 9302 and compression and leakdown numbers were perfect after. Still racing the motor a year and a half later. The motor has been bulletproof (knock on wood) in the 5 years I have been running it. A few common maintenance parts here and there but nothing major.

Hi Bruce!

Wasn't actually thinking of you when I typed it, but yet another data point! There you have it. Don't try that with a M50 variant!

[triggrhaapi]

You're really not comparing apples to apples.

Jeeze, the con rods on the S50B30 are 50mm, the biggest ever used on a BMW engine that I'm aware of.(*)

Seriously, also the way the engine handles track duty is very, very different. I'm not suggesting you DO this, but you can buzz a solid lifter engine a bit over redline with a "money shift" and get away with it... no way on the hydraulic M50 versions.... everyone and their grandmother knows that term. I know someone that saw 9K on his 3.2 with valves still in good shape.

(word to the wise, don't go too short on SS kits for the 6 speed...not that I'd know anything about THAT particular bug-aboo)

(*) (ok, short of whatever the BMW IIIa in the Fokker that Richthofen, the Red Baron flew, let us be reasonable here)

peace...

That all depends on which hydraulic lifters you have. The ones in the M50NV can knock on 8k and be fine. Andreas from PPF can run that for days and days. Of course that whole valvetrain is just stronger in general.

[M3 euro ltw]

That all depends on which hydraulic lifters you have. The ones in the M50NV can knock on 8k and be fine. Andreas from PPF can run that for days and days. Of course that whole valvetrain is just stronger in general.

Could be, OP is asking about US S50's...so my intent was to remark on that engine, not the newer stuff.

[triggrhaapi]

Could be, OP is asking about US S50's...so my intent was to remark on that engine, not the newer stuff.

M50NV is decidedly OLDER. NV = Non-Vanos. That's the head I have on my frankenmotor. Oddly enough, VANOS bolted right up.

[BingM3]

If you update your upper and lower valve retainers from S52's, the money shift issue is no longer a problem.

[triggrhaapi]

If you update your upper and lower valve retainers from S52's, the money shift issue is no longer a problem.

And the keepers too.

[M3 euro ltw]

Whoops...

My bad... I saw the NV, and mis-read it as the newer N series stuff. I'm not hip to that abbreviation. I'm glad that they feel their revised engines can last at 8K..... sounds dangerous to me.

Let us be clear on this then.... (OK, this is my opinion, not necessarily FACT)

The money shift problem is really primarily not the engine itself, it usually has to do with the front subframe having been ripped apart, so that there is no longer any connection between the engine mount and the subframe.

This often goes unnoticed. Once this happens, the engine tilts the whole fricken drivetrain, and the slot you THOUGHT you were going to shift into has moved, and you miss it.

The consequences are what we call "money shift", but its an over-rev where the hydraulic lifters can not keep the valves out of the way quickly enough from the pistons.

I'd gamble that the vast majority of people going to the trouble of upgrading their valvetrain KNOW about the front subframe weakness, and THAT is why they don't have money-shift problems. ie not intrinsically more robust or resistent to the buzzing at high rpm.

I hate to burst bubbles, but no amount of work on the valve train of a hydraulic lifter engine like the M50 series is really going to make it anywhere nearly as resistent to buzzing the valves as the euro motors. It is one example where you can't make a silk purse out of...well you get it.

I've had the pleasure of owning many BMW's without the solid lifters, so I'm not trying to slam the M50/S50 US motors, they are incredible, and so, so affordable....They make sense to use in many applications. But, the hydraulic lifters do not offer an improvement in performance in any way, they offer less maintenance for customers and factory's that don't want to be burdened with needing to adjust valves.

I don't want to start an internet war, so I'm not going to post on this portion of the subject again.

[triggrhaapi]

Actually, not revised. Andreas is just Swedish, which means he's crazy.

Also, I have NEVER had a problem figuring out which gear is where on a stock shifter. On a short shifter, it's rocket science.

As for what happens, It's actually got NOTHING to do with lifters, it has EVERYTHING to do with valvespring latency. Softer springs take longer to return the valve to closed. When a lifter collapses, the valve opens LESS, not more and there is no related latency from that effect. Also, the larger Non-Vanos lifters seem to hold pressure better, so they stay inflated even at extreme RPM. They also have to press on stiffer double valvesprings. The double valvesprings are a big part of why I went with an NV head instead of an S50 head.

[nmlss2006]

Wait wait wait: how did the VANOS bolt right up on a NV motor? Please tell me more, this has suddently become relevant upon purchase of a 525iX touring...

[triggrhaapi]

If your head isn't machined to clear the VANOS unit, you have to have that done. Otherwise it's a direct bolt on.

[triggrhaapi]

Oh and obviously the cams are totally different.

[digger]

Performance, pretty much the same 0-60 and 1/4 stock
US S50 vs Euro S50B30 (6.0 vs 5.6, 14.5 vs 14.0)

How is 0.5s in the 1/4 pretty much the same? Considering a 100mph trap speed in 0.5s you move 25 yards or ~5 car length, Even 0.5s 0-60 is a 1-2 car lengths.

[BingM3]

How is 0.5s in the 1/4 pretty much the same? Considering a 100mph trap speed in 0.5s you move 25 yards or ~5 car length, Even 0.5s 0-60 is a 1-2 car lengths.

It not significant in my opinion in terms of difference is swap cost and performance.
It may be a nicer looking engine, slightly higher HP, but swap/labor of $6,000 vs $10,000 is distant. On an S50 for about $ 1,000 bucks, adding a 3.5" HFM ($100), intake ($150), upgraded exhaust ($500) and chip ($250), can bring you close to 300HP

On any given day, it can be a driver's race.

[browntown]

Alex is hands down THE authority on these engines in the US.

And a gynecologist too! I wish some of the docs I work with were hip to working on cars.