S50/S52 swap... is it worth it?

[e30rapidic]

S50 swap better be worth it! I will find out shortly...

[Adrian_Visser]

Shit adds up that's for sure, especially if you do things the right way.

[CoClimber]

Shit adds up that's for sure, especially if you do things the right way.

Heck, even if you do it the wrong way!:D

I stopped counting the time and money that went into my S50 swap and I'm not done yet. I'll let you know if I think it's worth it after I do my first track day. I suspect, however, that I already know the answer.

[Suspence]

OK so after all the reading ( jesus that was a lot haha ) but thanks for all the responses... what do I need to do a legit swap?

As in EVERYTHING? I'm really considering it...
I don't want to go half ass, if I'm going to make my e30 last another 10 years... what do I need to do?

[bzboardz]

OK so after all the reading ( jesus that was a lot haha ) but thanks for all the responses... what do I need to do a legit swap?

As in EVERYTHING? I'm really considering it...
I don't want to go half ass, if I'm going to make my e30 last another 10 years... what do I need to do?

http://www.e30dohc.com/wiki/index.php?title=DOHC_Swap_Basics

the sticky at the top of the sub forum is a good start

[dinanm3atl]

That link just tells making it work. The list is long to do it right.

New sensors, gaskets, plugs and the like. Of course all the mechanical swap parts. The list of doing it right is much shorter than the list of making it work.

[Wanganstyle]

OK I am doing the math...

M52 + Turbo.

Plus the S54 motor alone is 6K so your 'math' might be a little bit off. What about trans? What about tuning? Parts to install? Sorry but an S54 is
not the best or even close to the best swap candidate at this point.

YES. if RWHP numbers is more important than feel to you;

M52+ turbo is best power for your $$$$$ all day long.

OR you can consider M50b25+turbo. works very well and the starting mill is even more dime a dozen.

This is assuming you want a TURBO in your car, Turbo power is not = NA power.

***



NA power costs 400% x $$$$ of Turbo power.

***
As far as pricing is concerned; your experience will vary.
***


Call around, check Craigslist, local classifieds etc- OR buy a complete T boned E46m and part out/keep to profit.

more than a year ago my S54 cost me $4450 or so delivered to my door with warrenty from a large vendor - you can definately do better; Crappy Economy = cash talks wonders.



I was thrifty and kept my existing S52 5 speed driveline and complete setup originally installed in my e36m,
did not even take it out of the car... 5 speed never failed me on track, I saw no reason to change it out.
$0



I spent about $1500 on mis items such as electronics, VAC E-throttle delete and ANS-10 conversion, an-10 carbon fiber lines for oil cooler, etc etc etc $$$$$$ S54 coils are unique, you can run the 80amp alternator if desired - I ended up installing a 140amp unit from e36 vert for plug and play into my e36 wiring.

DTA S100 unit was about 2K. You can do the bimmerworld route if your car is a street car, its the same cost really.

tuning cost about $$2,500 in fuel and 5 months of burning tires on serious high speed loaded aero fighter pulls. Could have cost a LOT more If the CHP had been watching.......

Wiring the S54 was 1 week of my life. $$$priceless.


total for my project ~ 10.5K

IF I had commissioned a S52 NA build for my needs I would have spent about:

$3.5k in bottom end and oiling
2.5K in valvetrain+cams
1.5k in mapping and electronics

roughly 7.5k vs 10.5K so a 40% premium to have 310rwhp and 8400 rpm vs having 270rwhp and 7600 rpm.

Pump gas 91 NA gains of 40hp and 800 RPM...... is that worth $2.5K to you?

S54 also used S52 alternator, starter, power steering pump, engine arms and mounts, radiator hoses (as mine were new), aluminum radiator. My car had E36 euro water overflow tank already installed.

If you are a very good DIY person and can tune your own and wire your own (fully homegrown home rolled)

then a standalone style S54 install will cost $7-9K.
if you are hiring a shop, budget about $15k. its expensive.

Nobody said speed was CHEAP, I was just making relative comparisons and stating the logic that made me plunk down cash money and tear my running s52 M3 apart. My track car wore out its S52 after a couple seasons of serious tracking and drifting and Tarmac attack. It was VERY reliable and quite fast 100% stock s52 power, 1:50 with passenger timing @ laguna seca, full interior and Ac.



Driveline:

I Used OEM 5 speed gearbox from my S52, kept everything else the same, S52 stock clutch handles S50b32 power just fine, and so does the diff. 5 speed ~ 20 lbs or so lighter than the 6mt, and for track racing you should be gearing your machine properly anyways.

S52 clutch setup with its fly can bolt up directly and play into any S54; if you want to run the 6mt transmission just change the center friction disc to a large spline unit- they are both 240mm. 540i, M5 e39 all use this 240mm setup

No more expense on driveline than S52 engine, BMW equipped the Z3m s54 car w/ the same Zfsg320 trans attached to it with same clutch as S52 M3 and S52 z3m. S52 clutch is also standard equipment on Euro S50b32 321hp engine.

Here is my s54 swap thread if you want to know what is all included for a DIY installation.

http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1437471

My Next E36M is going to be turbocharged, 3000cc or less.

[Wanganstyle]

Huh?

Maybe if you've got a bunch of blowby. My oil has a school day and 2 autocrosses on it, as well as about 2000 street miles. It's a nice golden color.

VANOS does not "cook" oil. It's a hydralic piston that moves back and forth, not much to it.

vanos uses oil to do something. This creates heat- try banging it off rev limiter every single gear on the track in the middle of summer desert heat next time!!!! drive it harder!!!!


Perhaps your motor was much nicer shape than my old S52, mine had over 10 track days, Drift days and had no mercy shown to it.; 1:50 w passenger@ laguna on stock ecu; full weight ac street car.

[bimmerteck]

vanos uses oil to do something. This creates heat- try banging it off rev limiter every single gear on the track in the middle of summer desert heat next time!!!! drive it harder!!!!


Perhaps your motor was much nicer shape than my old S52, mine had over 10 track days, Drift days and had no mercy shown to it.; 1:50 w passenger@ laguna on stock ecu; full weight ac street car.

Vanos is an electrically operated valve controlling oil pressure to a piston that actuates cam movement. Your oil burned up b/c you overdrove the car with out an oil cooler. Do you have any idea what your oil temps were? 10 track days and a few drift events won't kill a properly maintained and prepped motor, but a single money shift or overheat situation can. ;)

[Bimmerman325i]

vanos uses oil to do something. This creates heat- try banging it off rev limiter every single gear on the track in the middle of summer desert heat next time!!!! drive it harder!!!!


Perhaps your motor was much nicer shape than my old S52, mine had over 10 track days, Drift days and had no mercy shown to it.; 1:50 w passenger@ laguna on stock ecu; full weight ac street car.

I don't think you'll find a guy who beats the piss out of his car, tracks, nor autocrosses an e36 m3 as much as Chris.

[Supadave]

Shit adds up that's for sure, especially if you do things the right way.

Shit ya, I'm doing an S52 swap with AA Stage II supercharger kit and cams. Im scared to add it all up:crazy:

[e30polak]

Sooooooooooooooo much misinformation in this thread it's not funny! :hitler:

1. In the current market an s50/s52 can go from $1k - $3.5k, simply depends on how hard you look.

2. An m50 vanos/m52 makes for a very fun car, especially with m3 cams, and is roughly $500-$1,000 cheaper. It truly depends on your power goals for the car IMO. Used supercharger kits go for $1k - $3.5k all day long on bimmerforums, which makes any m50/m52 considerably faster than an s50/s52, and even a stock s54. If you do a turbo set-up then you're talking about serious power! ;)

3. s50/2 motors ARE capable of breaking 300 CRANK hp, with the right set of cams, headers, and other supporting mods. However, the cost of cams is definitely not worth it vs. a used supercharger kit.

4. The current market for S54s is very affordable these days. Motors range from $3k - 6k; simply depends how hard you look. For instance, I bought my complete s54 with all accessories, harness and DME for only $1,850 .

With the price of S54s these days, I wouldn't pay over $2k for a good condition s50/2 WITH ZF trans. Simply not worth it IMO.


It all comes down to what you want to do with the car and how much you want to spend. For some, an NA m50 non-Vanos is enough. IMO that swap is not worth the effort at all unless you turbo it. A good running m20 "i" motor with a Miller MAF and a freer flowing exhaust is almost as fast.

For most, an m50 Vanos/m52 will hold you over. If you get bored you can always get M3 cams or a supercharger to make it more fun.

The s50/2 option is worth it for those that want a very potent swap out of the box. My bolt-on s52 car dynoed 232whp/228wtq and would walk stock e46 m3s and stock 335s up to about 100. If you supercharge, or turbo this set-up, you have a car that will be too much power for most. A SC or turbo 24v e30 will out perform most cars on the street, and are a bargain for the results.

Finally, for those wanting the most potent NA 6 cylinder set-up you have the wonderful s54 motor. With catless headers, higher flowing exhaust and intake, and a proper tune, you make easily over 300whp and can make power past 8k. Then you can always supercharge it or buy an HPF kit later and go after Italian exotics! :twisted:

[Bimmerman325i]

I agree with all of that, and you're a lucky bastard to find a $1850 S54 setup...how'd you pull that one off?

[e30polak]

I agree with all of that, and you're a lucky bastard to find a $1850 S54 setup...how'd you pull that one off?

Recession = crazy deals on expensive items when people are in dire need of money. Money talks!

[Bimmerman325i]

Recession = crazy deals on expensive items when people are in dire need of money. Money talks!

This makes me happy, I'm moving to CA soon enough.