S50/S52 swap... is it worth it?

[Adrian_Visser]

On the subject of bolt ons does anyone have a dyno chart showing a direct comparison between under drive pulleys vs. regular pulleys on the same dyno?

I have Eurosport under drive pulleys on my engine and even looking at the charts they advertise on their site they are only claiming a 2whp gain on an s52 where as on an m52 they advertise 8 or 10whp (can't remember exactly) Why is that anyway?

[fsmtnbiker]

I've never dyno'd back to back. I would guess pullies are closer to 2hp than 10hp. much closer to 2hp.

I would do pullies for the better high RPM cooling and extended accessory life at high RPM, not for the power.

[nando]

Doesn't matter what dyno. Stock S52s dyno on a dynojet between 205-210whp. The gains from there to modded are quite real, so I don't get the dynojet hate.

that's exactly what my point was. it shows the gains from individual mods and tuning. you can't use it to calculate an exact crank #. and dynojets are *widely* known to show higher numbers than other dynos. that does matter when you're trying to guess at what crank HP it makes. All you've shown is it's easy to hit 245whp.. on a dynojet. that's nice.

220hp*1.15 is a big step from 240hp*1.15

[bimmerteck]

I've never dyno'd back to back. I would guess pullies are closer to 2hp than 10hp. much closer to 2hp.

I would do pullies for the better high RPM cooling and extended accessory life at high RPM, not for the power.

We dynoed an s50 powered e36 m3 with the addition of under-drive pulleys, then with under-drive pulleys and no mechanical fan, it gained more from removing the mechanical fan but it was only 6 or 7hp total, but I still recommend installing them for one reason.

1. They completely eliminate the risk of a failing plastic BMW pulley.

[dinanm3atl]

What? I thought FDM got you like 10-15hp? I read it on bf.c! Totally worth it!

[bimmerteck]

What? I thought FDM got you like 10-15hp? I read it on bf.c! Totally worth it!

I didn't do the famed "FDM" (thermostat/water wetter/fan removal ect) I simply removed the factory fan in between runs to see the effect. no other changes.

[dinanm3atl]

Yah. How much power? 6 or 7 combined with under drive pullies?

[bimmerteck]

Pull 1 - stock
Pull 2 - underdrive pulleys
Pull 3 - pulleys and fan removed

Total gain from pull 1 to pull 3 was like 6.6hp iirc on a 90 degree Birmingham day with that wonderful "swamp like" southern humidity and the motor at operating temp for all pulls. Difference from pulls 1-2 (pulleys alone) would be labeled *statistically indifferent if I were presenting the data. ;)

[Danny]

lolling at the kids who've never had a 24v car dishing out advice on them.

Right?

ugh, I hate it when people post BS like this

who cares? the M20 has dual valve springs, nobody's doing 12v swaps? The later motors have better, lighter drivetrains, that don't need dual springs, and better, lighter bottom ends, that can rev higher out of the box. the NV motor is an antiquated relic compared to something like an M52B28.

also, I want to know where all these 300hp S50's are. The ones that didn't cost $10k to build..

Must have stumbled onto some secret as I know cars with those mods or very similar and they are not making the same power. As said before that exhaust cost almost as much as a used S/C kit so outside of making a bunch of noise it just is not worth spending that money. This is not typical gains for N/A bolt on mods.




Shoot. I want to know where all these 300hp S52s are that only have basic bolt-ons. And on top of that again... you will spend as much in N/A bolt-ons that supposedly get you to 300hp(or more) as it would to buy a used supercharger. I have heard of now 1 supposed '300hp' S52 and it is right here on this forum. All the E36 M3s are not putting down 245hp from basic bolt ons and the amount of money spent for that mod list is just too much for what you are getting.

Also the other thing to consider is I have seen a stock late model car put down 218 before. Thus considering if you got another strong factory motor your 'gains' are not as much as the estimation. There are plenty of threads on bf.c talking about the kind of gains you can see and what you can do. 300hp means cams for almost anyone you ask.

And yes. The N/V had this time period when everyone had a hard on for it but that time has passed. It isn't THAT great. I wouldn't waste your time on it. VANOS is a good thing.

M52, gasket, studs and a well tuned pieced together turbo kit. S52 will never make 300 without FI and or major expensive internals. Hell my S52 obd1 w/ AA stg1 SC only does like 310whp

2500 labor? I charge a decent bit less than that.

Haven't seen these 3500 dollar Engine, Trans, DME and wiring. I have seen 5-6K ones though. Then you add in 3K for tuning/electronics and you are at what? 8-9K? What about the driveshaft? Engine mounts? Trans mount? What about the actual trans brace? Is there an OEM driveshaft to use? Need a Guibo. Yes and then exhaust and some sort of intake. What cooling system setup do you use?

There is more to a swap than "Engine/trans and a DEM". I think you are skipping a lot of cost and/or skimping on parts. I have estimated and bee told expect 10K to swap an S54 at minimum to be done right. You can claim otherwise and I'll let you have your opinion...

However once I am at 8K? M52 + Turbo. Weight? Maybe it is slightly heavier. It will make more power. Will be super reliable because to make more power than that S54 requires low boost. It makes cooler noises. If you pop a motor it isn't another 5K to replace it. It is 500-800 bucks.

Sorry but IMO the S54 is not a 'budget minded' swap into any BMW.

Listen to these guys^

since your in CA, i'll bring up the smog/registration issue. i believe if you let a shop swap it for you, its easier to get it ref. so you don't have to go through a whole bunch of crap.

Wrong. My swap was easy to ref and I did it in my backyard. Paid the BAR station 8 bucks and 2 hours of my time. If you do it right, it'll pass.

[mohamadr89]

Haven't seen these 3500 dollar Engine, Trans, DME and wiring. I have seen 5-6K ones though. Then you add in 3K for tuning/electronics and you are at what? 8-9K? What about the driveshaft? Engine mounts? Trans mount? What about the actual trans brace? Is there an OEM driveshaft to use? Need a Guibo. Yes and then exhaust and some sort of intake. What cooling system setup do you use?

There is more to a swap than "Engine/trans and a DEM". I think you are skipping a lot of cost and/or skimping on parts. I have estimated and bee told expect 10K to swap an S54 at minimum to be done right. You can claim otherwise and I'll let you have your opinion...

However once I am at 8K? M52 + Turbo. Weight? Maybe it is slightly heavier. It will make more power. Will be super reliable because to make more power than that S54 requires low boost. It makes cooler noises. If you pop a motor it isn't another 5K to replace it. It is 500-800 bucks.

Sorry but IMO the S54 is not a 'budget minded' swap into any BMW.

okay good because for a 2nd the other guy had me feeling like i should of bought a s54 instead of my s50. but i just didnt have the money. i think once i build and turbo the s50 it should make great power. lol how does the s50 turbo compare with a m52 turbo?

[phreshkid]

okay good because for a 2nd the other guy had me feeling like i should of bought a s54 instead of my s50. but i just didnt have the money. i think once i build and turbo the s50 it should make great power. lol how does the s50 turbo compare with a m52 turbo?

Dude you are asking some seriously terrible questions.
I'm not even trying to be an ass either.

[Philo]

Best bang for the buck, M52.

All the dyno talk is silly. Too many variances to even begin an argument.

OP, don't pay that ridiculous price for the swap. For that price I could fly out, stay at a fancy hotel, rent a garage space w/ tools, and still afford a happy meal at mac does.

[mohamadr89]

Dude you are asking some seriously terrible questions.
I'm not even trying to be an ass either.

I just asked that question because everybody talks about m50/52 turbo but I rarely hear about s50/52 turbo'd. That's all sorry

[phreshkid]

I just asked that question because everybody talks about m50/52 turbo but I rarely hear about s50/52 turbo'd. That's all sorry

No but you're asking questions without a single variable taken into consideration.
You cannot directly compare two motors from two cars with two different turbos running the exact same engine management system.

The only way your turbo question makes sense is if you literally compare two cars with the exact same setups, only difference between the two being the motors and in this case, an s50 vs an m52/m50.

Think about it man.

[nmlss2006]

I will mention from experience: $2500 if you hand him an E30 and an S52 with trans the way it comes out of an E36 and he hands you back an E30 with the S52 and trans proprerly in it is a VERY GOOD PRICE, as in let me know where he is and I'll bring him cars all day.
If you have to start adding driveshaft, iX booster, exhaust, engine mounts, DME, chip, fan, and the 2500 is just the labor, it's a different story.
Don't believe the 'I had this E30 I did the swap with $1000' people. It doesn't work that way. Not even if you count your time at $0/hr and you're swapping an M20 for another M20.