Throw Out Bearing

[Slovik]

Hi all,

I am just about to install my clutch, I am swapping an S52 into my 91 318is using the 240 getrag. I have a M20 shaved flywheel and a F1 stage 2 clutch it came with the standard 325 TOB and a lot of people are saying to only use the 323 TOB. There must be some using the 325 TOB what experience did you have with that. I have sitting on my desk the 325 one and my old 318 TOB and they both measure 1-15/16" or 49 mm end to end how long is the 323 and will the clutch hydraulics compensate for the difference. Don't want to put in the wrong one as the time and effort is just not worth the 50 or 60 bucks. The picture in the linked thread shows the 323 as being longer but it also shows the 318 and 325 to be different lengths and I'm pretty sure that is wrong as they are both sitting in front of me.

http://www.r3vlimited.com/board/showthread.php?t=225295&highlight=throw+bearing

Thanks,

Seth

[Slovik]

Well I've gotten no responses yet so I did a little scientific research. I compared my old m42 flywheel, clutch, pressure plate and throw out bearing combination against my new m20 flywheel, f1 clutch, pressure plate and throw out bearing on a flat level surface next to each other and found them to be virtually identical from the clutch arm surface to the flywheel/crank mating surface. So using the 323 tob which has a 4mm taller height from bearing surface to clutch arm surface will most certainly give a higher clutch pedal engage point. Hope this helps others.

[36brua]

THIS IS STUFF I'VE COLLECTED. FOR YOUR REFERENCE ONLY

Hope this helps GL
search 24v swap thread

S50 + G260 in E30 Questions! Help pleeeease!

http://www.r3vlimited.com/board/showthread.php?t=222226

Single mass m20 flywheel/m50


THROWOUT BEARING.

EARLY ETA TRANS NOT LATE 260
the 86es getrag trans is different than the 89i getrag transmission****
the mounting face of the slave is 1/4" farther back on the "es" getrag transmission. (as well as the guibo size, support bearing). so, when i used the "i" flywheel with the "i" clutch and slave.....the slave sat 1/4" farther away from the fork than with the other getrag.

Euro e21 323i release bearing to compensate for the difference in flywheel thickness of the dual mass vs. the single mass, but those posts refer to a Getrag gearbox

The Getrag 240 out of the E30 318i with an M42- you will need to use the M20 flywheel and starter for this application as well. You will also need the Euro 323i throwout bearing part # 21-51-1-204-525.
The issue is the release bearing. On numerous other posts the release bearing that should be used for the single mass m20 flywheel/m50 motor, is the Euro e21 323i p/n 21511204525, as it is slightly taller/thicker, but as far as I can tell those swaps have used the Getrag trans in conjuntion with the m50

the E21.... so I asked him to measure that aswell (luckily he was a very helpful bloke!) and it turns out that the inner diameter is 0.9mm larger, the overall length is roughly 3mm longer and the distance between the thrust face and the fork face is approx. 6mm longer!

That's what will help compensate the thinner flywheel and prevent the slave having to travel further.

I've also found out that on the M42 dual mass, there is a 'spacer' which is riveted to it. This can be removed and used with the M20 flywheel so that it clears the engine.

This spacer, combined with the E21 release bearing, will hopefully completely counteract the lack of width on the M20 flywheel. Thus keeping the biting point in the same place and stopping the slave from having to travel further. This will also mean that the clutch will engage and disengage properly which is something I was worried about with the spacing being wrong.

i flywheel - m50

http://www.r3vlimited.com/board/showthread.php?t=61990

ok, here is where it gets tricky.....
i found the clutch slave did not press the fork/t.o bearing far enough to disengage the clutch. after further investigation i realized the dual mass flywheel assembly was +/-3/16" thicker than the "i" flywheel assembly. (i.e. 3/16" greater from face of crank mounting to face of pressureplate diaphram.) hence, the position of the t.o bearing was +/- 3/16" too far away to fully compress the diaphram......clutch no workeee. i could only see three solutions:
1. put a 3/16" spacer between flywheel and crank (then bolts experience greater twist and have less threads to hold them in.)
2. get a longer rod for the slave cylinder (then the fork is not perpendicular to the t.o bearing or shaft)
3. make the t.o bearing 3/16" longer.....from face of forks to face of pressure plate diapham. and thats what i did. i welded on some spacers to the t.o bearing tabs (the ones that press against the fork) which in essence pushed the t.o bearing 3/16" closer to the pressure plate. i have heard that the 323i euro t.o bearing that is 3/16" longer.....but that is "hear-say."..... can anyone (with experience) confirm ???

now it works. flywheel is mounted correcly, clutch pack is mounted correctly, t.o bearing presses snugly on press plate, fork is perpendicular to shaft......i drive off happily into the sunset



I just replaced the transmission on that car and did some investigating.

****


I’ve just encountered this problem, I have an M50 engine with an M20 single mass flywheel and clutch, and im using an E36 325 gearbox.
I only noticed as I fitted the slave into the box that there was no resistance, you usually have to press the pushrod back into the slave about 1/2" to 3/4".
I have welded about an extra inch onto the end of the pushrod and this feels fine underfoot but have yet to drive the car to see how well it works.
This means that the release fork will not be at 90 degrees to the shaft. The release bearing will still have full contact on the clutch face but will this cause any problems?





ZF TRANS
Just incase any one was wandering you can use a e30 clutch with a zf as long as you use your lightweight/shaved e30 flywheel and clutch basket and pressure plate, currently what i am running

[kid325e]

I'm dealing with some issues with my M20/Eta Trans setup but was able to verify that the "ears" on the 323i TOB vs. the 325i TOB is 3/16 " taller than the 325i. For what it's worth.

The 325i TOB measures 25mm from the bottom of the bearing to the top of the "ears".
The 323i TOB measures 30mm from the bottom of the bearing to the top of the "ears".

Not sure how this info applies to M50 swaps but I figured i'd answer OP's question.

[Overlord475]

I'm dealing with some issues with my M20/Eta Trans setup but was able to verify that the "ears" on the 323i TOB vs. the 325i TOB is 3/16 " taller than the 325i. For what it's worth.

The 325i TOB measures 25mm from the bottom of the bearing to the top of the "ears".
The 323i TOB measures 30mm from the bottom of the bearing to the top of the "ears".

Not sure how this info applies to M50 swaps but I figured i'd answer OP's question.

What do you mean by "bottom"? The pressure plate side or the transmission side of the TOB?

[faffierwaffle]

Sorry to revive an old thread but Slovik i see you have installed and now replaced your clutch. Did you just end up buying the e21/e28 TOB?

[Daeldalus]

The 323 TO is only needed when using a Trans that originally came with a dual mass flywheel and you are switching to the single mass m20 flywheel.

Trans like g250, zf320, early eta g260

Even then you can still Use the 325 tob but the clutch engagement will be low.

If you are using a g240 then the stock tob is what you want

[Mushroom Stew]

The 323 TO is only needed when using a Trans that originally came with a dual mass flywheel and you are switching to the single mass m20 flywheel.

Trans like g250, zf320, early eta g260

Even then you can still Use the 325 tob but the clutch engagement will be low.

If you are using a g240 then the stock tob is what you want

Sorry, by stock do you mean the m20 release/throwout bearing or the getrag 240 release bearing? (I think you mean the m20 one right?)

[Daeldalus]

I am pretty sure that the g240 and the m20 tobs are the same

So.... either one

[TobyB]

21517521471
CLUTCH RELEASE BEARING
From:10/01/2003To:-Weight:0.220 kgPrice:$75.34
Supersedes:

21511223366 (10/04/1993 — 08/19/2004), Exchangeable retrospectively21511223168 (12/01/1980 — 06/25/1992), Exchangeable retrospectively21511208423 (12/01/1980 — 02/18/1992)
Part 21517521471 was found on the following vehicles:
3' E21   (02/1975 — 12/1983)
3' E30   (12/1981 — 02/1994)
3' E36   (11/1989 — 08/2000)
3' E46   (04/1997 — 08/2006)
1500-2000CS   (01/1966 — 01/1972)
5' E12   (02/1972 — 07/1981)
5' E28   (06/1980 — 08/1990)
5' E34   (03/1987 — 06/1996)
5' E39   (02/1995 — 12/2003)
2.5CS-3.0CSL   (04/1971 — 11/1975)
6' E24   (10/1975 — 04/1989)
2500-3.3Li   (08/1968 — 02/1977)
7' E23   (10/1976 — 11/1989)
7' E32   (10/1985 — 04/1994)
7' E38   (07/1993 — 07/2001)
X5 E53   (08/1999 — 09/2006)
Z1 Roadster   (07/1988 — 06/1991)
Z3 E36   (12/1994 — 06/2002)
Z4 E85   (01/2002 — 11/2005)

it's almost ubiquitous...

t