Getting torque from M52

[slammin.e28]

I ended up parting it out. Rust got the body hard.

I sold the engine to a friend who built the S52 bottom etc and put it in a defender. It was pretty good. I remember he ran a very tiny exhaust to help with the torque. I don't know what happened to the truck. Look up Sarek Autowerke, that's his shop. He got deep into M7x swaps but now he's big into building the new Defenders up. I swear there's some info in posts from a few years ago.

Body got scrapped and I kept the frame for my rotten Series 3 109, which was to be V12'd....but life happened lol.

Sorry I'm not much help. Between kids and work I haven't had time for anything....my next build was going to be a M54B30 into my D2 but that's been backburnered for years now....

[Andrew325is]

Ever get this figured out? I have the S52 in the Defender with stock S52 cams, but I also have a set of M52 cams. I've tried searching for dyno graphs of differences between cams, but I haven't had much luck. Most people add a bunch of other mods like the intake manifold so it's difficult to see what differences in the power curve are attributable to the cams only. My S52 is 100% stock with the OBD2 manifold. I've found dyno graphs of 264/256 Schrick cams in an S52 and it looks like the bottom-end isn't affected. So I don't know how much benefit on the low-end can be gained going the other way with short duration cams.

Maybe I will have find a shop nearby with a 4x4 dyno and test both cams. I also don't know enough about engine design as to whether changing the exhaust cam only would be any better, or a good idea at all. I think I'll leave my engine alone though because any mods like the cams will require custom tuning and I don't really want to mess with that.

Here are some other things I've thought of for M52b28 if you or anyone else wants to try to get more torque out of it.

-Try the Defender 2.8i tune. I would think Land Rover/BMW would have tuned the M52 for low-end torque in the Defender, but I don't actually know. It would be interesting to compare dyno graphs of the 2.8i tune and a BMW car tune (e.g. 528i) in the same vehicle. You can get an MS41.0 DME and flash it with WinKFP. The ZB number for the Defender M52 tune is 1438099. (You might be able to use a 3rd party flasher like MS41 Quickflash to flash the MS41.0 tune to an MS41.1 DME, but WinKFP will brick it.)

-Try adding the hemholtz resonator on the intake from the 528i. BMW calls it an intake silencer, and it does muffle sound a little, but it's actual purpose is to increase low-end torque. It provides a reserve of air for the intake.

[slammin.e28]

S52 bottom end.

BOOM.

Going to totally rebuild it. New bearings, seals, rings, etc. Gonna run the dingle-berry hone through and clean up the bores, not that there is anything wrong with them. Should be a cool little project. Not going to be done ANYTIME soon, but none the less, should be fun.

Just need to find a good e30 driveshaft to finish putting my M60 car together.....

[ForcedFirebird]

885 and poor efficiency? it is one of the better 2V out there so much swirl the 4V heads go crying to their mommy. if everything was the same between M20 and M5x except chamber the M20 would probably be better for torque, purely academic though

Was talking about the mating of a US spec eta and 885 head. Sorry, left that out :(

[digger]

885 and poor efficiency? it is one of the better 2V out there so much swirl the 4V heads go crying to their mommy. if everything was the same between M20 and M5x except chamber the M20 would probably be better for torque, purely academic though

[ForcedFirebird]

torque at low rpm is all about
- cubic inches
- compression
- cam timing
- burn efficiency

Yup. Even the poor efficiency of an 885 head on a US bottom end can have gobs of torque ;) Running b25 HP and more ETA torque than from the factory with the "budget strokers" we have been building always puts smiles on racers' faces.

[digger]

torque at low rpm is all about
- cubic inches
- compression
- cam timing
- burn efficiency

[slammin.e28]

Looking into intakes manifolds....

....anyone know if an M54B30 intake mani bolts up?

I read they make a good jump in TQ when bolted up to an M52TU. I's probably just make a plate to simulate the DISA valve to force air in the most tq producing fashion.

I ask because we just replaced a blowed up M54B30 at work. I can nab the intake mani before the block get's hauled off.

[2mAn]

in racing you're either cheating or losing

[Wanganstyle]

come run in norcal then; there is just ridiculous cheating happening and its all covered up electronically;
even lemons is full cheating mode- its fair competition as everyone else is also cheating.
Racing = cheating.

look at all the moto IQ articles on the angry hamster and metro-gnome; there are hidden machine shops making crazy billet parts all day long for lemons cars; its not "cheating" its competition! This is northern california; lemons HQ is here.

If i was able to dyno the same curve with a 2700cc as a 2500cc on the local SE30 dyno with an noob self mapped low power chip; one who owns a dyno or has the engine built at rebello (they have in house engine dyno and all tuning) will have a huge advantage.

[ForcedFirebird]

check the latest NASA newsletter

there are plenty of ways to get a stroker past spec e30 dyno........... think harder :)

a crank can also be offset ground for mini-stroker increase; rebello racing is famous for making a 3300cc S54 engine by offset grinding the OEM bmw crankshaft..... Rebello racing is also local.

Oh, and top running spec E30 cars sell for about $14,000-$16,000 asking here in norcal. id say more than half is the engine cost...as its only about 6-7k to build one if you keep the stock engine. The most popular chassis shop TC design cage is only about 2k

I had a mapping setup for my 10.5:1 327s 2.7L engine that dyno-ed LESS than a stock m20b25 on purpose.... switched ECU's are pretty common in norcal.

the cervesas XX dos equis lemons car somehow dyno'ed 147rwhp from their m30bxx; but on the straights it pulls like 200rwhp (as it blows past our ~ 180rwhp car)

i'm setting up some switches to loose about 10-15 hp on the dyno; our stock m20 did 154rwhp on the local spec e30 dyno and the 24v needs to dyno about 165 :)

Bay area Motorsports........we cheat HARDCORE :)

Quite involved in the local Se30 scene, working my way to comp license and am a track official. Also have tuned the m1.3 in the ChumpE to stop at 125whp to run in Time Trials, albeit it was making 170wtq ;)

I just have never heard of anyone stroking because it is so easy to detect, even an offset ground crank would measure when pulling a plug.

Yes, I knew about the rule change the day it was announced, so the HP war is over.

You can build an SE30 for a lot less if you are resourceful, I can buy a pre-bent cage for about $700, but actually just got my hands on a bender minus the hydraulics in trade for some shop labor (knock the cage down to a few hundo, wire, gas and time). Used sport shocks/dampers, used springs, mount the sub-frame/engine/trans solid, wheels/tires, then being resourceful, you can find used safety items.


You have to remember to build an all-new m20, you are looking at $5k-ish of that cost unless you have your own machining equipment for the block and head. Machining and balancing alone on this motor in my engine building room was $1500, .020" pistons are $700, valve guides, valves ($400), cam ($300), rockers ($300), rings ($100+), bearings (100+), oil pump ($150), crank scraper ($120 for a good steel one) it all adds up fast. It's hard to sell a .020" over rebuild for less than $5k. This list alone is $3500-ish before adding peripherals like gaskets, t-belt, pump, clutch etc, then someone has to put it all together.

Taking the podium after severely/blatantly cheating takes away the fact of driver skill.

[slammin.e28]

Flip piston rings upside down and run methanol in the oil. You'll smoke the engine eventually, but M20s are everywhere.

Putting pistons in backwards is another old trick from dirt track racers.

[Wanganstyle]

Strokers?!?!? Doubt that. Stroke is easy to measure in impound simply by removing a spark plug.

check the latest NASA newsletter

there are plenty of ways to get a stroker past spec e30 dyno........... think harder :)

a crank can also be offset ground for mini-stroker increase; rebello racing is famous for making a 3300cc S54 engine by offset grinding the OEM bmw crankshaft..... Rebello racing is also local.

Oh, and top running spec E30 cars sell for about $14,000-$16,000 asking here in norcal. id say more than half is the engine cost...as its only about 6-7k to build one if you keep the stock engine. The most popular chassis shop TC design cage is only about 2k

I had a mapping setup for my 10.5:1 327s 2.7L engine that dyno-ed LESS than a stock m20b25 on purpose.... switched ECU's are pretty common in norcal.

the cervesas XX dos equis lemons car somehow dyno'ed 147rwhp from their m30bxx; but on the straights it pulls like 200rwhp (as it blows past our ~ 180rwhp car)

i'm setting up some switches to loose about 10-15 hp on the dyno; our stock m20 did 154rwhp on the local spec e30 dyno and the 24v needs to dyno about 165 :)

Bay area Motorsports........we cheat HARDCORE :)

[ForcedFirebird]

Dual vanos waffleswaffleswaffles.

M54B30, is rated at 221tq. In my 330i (when it had about 60k miles on it) dynoed 200hp/200tq at the wheels.

I think I can get more with a 3.2 block. Same stroke, but the bore is 86.4mm vs 84mm.

Yeah, but with the dual vanos and variable intake, that torque starts early and hangs around for a long time. Look at the dyno graph and compare it to a b32.

[ForcedFirebird]

spec e30 cars got hp ban this year......because to many stroker engines. Over 168 rwhp = DQ Can't race.

Strokers?!?!? Doubt that. Stroke is easy to measure in impound simply by removing a spark plug.