M50 Non Vanos..waste Of Time?

[matt]

Bullshit.

The M50 is MUCH better than an M20, and is certainly not just your basic M20 w/ an extra cam. It is far more modern, with a dramatic reduction in internal friction, and is very easy to take apart and maintain. Vanos is useful for improving every-day driveability, but it is not resilient, especially as compared to Honda's bulletproof VTEC setup. I'll take a non-Vanos M50, thanks.

Your loss.

BTW: there were big changes throughout the bottom end between the M50 and the M50TU. How do you think it made the same peak HP with less agressive cams? Much lighter rotating assembly, and the compression bump, which was made possible by better engine management (knock sensors)

The NV M50 only feels faster because the HP and torque curves are steeper. The Vanos M50TU has much more area under the curve... it doesn't feel as "rev-happy" because it has more torque. Stock for stock, Vanos motors are faster every time.

[PiercedE30]

but what happens when you mix m52 rods, s50 crank, and m50tu pistons in a NV? muhuhahahahahah

[Low Level E30]

Your loss.

BTW: there were big changes throughout the bottom end between the M50 and the M50TU. How do you think it made the same peak HP with less agressive cams? Much lighter rotating assembly, and the compression bump, which was made possible by better engine management (knock sensors)

The NV M50 only feels faster because the HP and torque curves are steeper. The Vanos M50TU has much more area under the curve... it doesn't feel as "rev-happy" because it has more torque. Stock for stock, Vanos motors are faster every time.

This thread is all about opinion.

I like non-Vanos M50s for their hardy, rev-happy nature, and simplicity. I'm putting my swap together using a non-Vanos motor, a JBR flywheel, an E36 ZF, a 3.25 LSD, and a basic chipped ECU --- it'll be plenty fast for my application (track duty).

Feel free to disagree --- and I know you will --- you strike me as your average teeny-bopper R3V piss-ant.

[asubimmer]

but what happens when you mix m52 rods, s50 crank, and m50tu pistons in a NV? muhuhahahahahah

you realize that you can change the rods, crank and pistons in the m50tu also right?

[matt]

but what happens when you mix m52 rods, s50 crank, and m50tu pistons in a NV? muhuhahahahahah

Replace the bottom end and the NV M50 becomes a lot more appealing.

When you overrev a TU, the valves hit the pistons and the motor blows up.

When you overrev an NV, the rods break (because the pistons are so heavy) and put holes in the bock.

You seem to be on the right track to a solid combination.

[matt]

This thread is all about opinion.

you strike me as your average teeny-bopper R3V piss-ant.

Well, you are posting opinions and I'm posting facts.

But thanks. 8-)

[So Live]

Ive got a non-vanos motor. I agree its a great upgrade to a tired m20 but its no rocket ship. Unless your on a tight schedual and/or CANT wait to earn the extra money a s50 costs i dont know i would just throw in a nv m50. My m20 was on its way out so i thought it was a good time to upgrade. Looking back on it, id like to have spent the extra $ to make it a 2.9 or just bought a m52 or an M motor.

i can still spank all the ricers at school (minus the STi) and keep up with all the mustangs so its all good.

[BimmerToad]

but what happens when you mix m52 rods, s50 crank, and m50tu pistons in a NV? muhuhahahahahah

Stuff some S50 pistons in there, and ditch the M52 rods for the lighter S50 rods and you'll be much happier.

[PiercedE30]

no I won't.....lol

[e30polak]

NV is a waste of time...unless of course u turbo it :twisted:,,,otherwise go m50TU/m52

[Mr.SWISS]

Ive got a non-vanos motor. I agree its a great upgrade to a tired m20 but its no rocket ship. Unless your on a tight schedual and/or CANT wait to earn the extra money a s50 costs i dont know i would just throw in a nv m50. My m20 was on its way out so i thought it was a good time to upgrade. Looking back on it, id like to have spent the extra $ to make it a 2.9 or just bought a m52 or an M motor.

i can still spank all the ricers at school (minus the STi) and keep up with all the mustangs so its all good.

It fells to me like that is how it should have been made in the beginning. Far less maint. better power, MPG, and did anyone notice NO LOUD ASS MUTHA FUKIN TAPPING!!!1!!

[KangamangusDriver]

If you are going to boost it later down the road the NV motor is a very good candidate!

[matt]

If you are going to boost it later down the road the NV motor is a very good candidate!

Not better than a vanos motor.

[02stu]

Non vanos a waste of time? No potential?

A non vanos motor has the strongest connecting rods. It is the only motor with dual valve springs. It has a much thicker cylinder wall then the vanos so it can be bored out. It has the same output. It has the obd1 manifold. It has a metal water pump, and a metal thermostat housing. It can be reved higher. I would argue that a vanos motor has much more potential then a vanos for the above reasons not to mention you have to ditch vanos if you do anything extreme anyways.

[PiercedE30]

sorry, but the non-vanos rods are not stronger, they are heavier and beefier, (may be a little stronger) but the way to remedy that is to use M52 rods. also, the pistons are HUGE compared to the TU's and M52's. I have seen no difference between the cylinder wall thicknesses either.
All this coming from a guy building a nasty non-vanos. lol