M50 Non Vanos..waste Of Time?

[mitch500]

noob

mmm.. ok we'll see

[02stu]

sorry, but the non-vanos rods are not stronger, they are heavier and beefier, (may be a little stronger) but the way to remedy that is to use M52 rods. also, the pistons are HUGE compared to the TU's and M52's. I have seen no difference between the cylinder wall thicknesses either.
All this coming from a guy building a nasty non-vanos. lol

haha, and I'm swapping my non vanos for vanos engine. ssshhh

[matt]

Non vanos a waste of time? No potential? I didn't say that. It is a great motor to swap in. It's just not the best. Obviously a stock M50TU is not the best either... but it's a step in the right direction.

A non vanos motor has the strongest connecting rods. Wrong. They are the largest, and the heaviest. They are not the strongest. Plus, since when is large and heavy what we're looking for in motor parts? While you're at it, it's got the largest and heaviest pistons. Is this an advantage too?

It is the only motor with dual valve springs. True, but it also has valves with 7mm stems which block more flow and require stiffer springs because they're heavier.

It has a much thicker cylinder wall then the vanos so it can be bored out. Wrong.

It has the same output. You mean the same peak HP. It has less torque, and less area under the curve.

It has the obd1 manifold. It has a metal water pump, and a metal thermostat housing. It can be reved higher. Until the rods come crashing out the sides of the block...

I would argue that a vanos motor has much more potential then a vanos for the above reasons not to mention you have to ditch vanos if you do anything extreme anyways.
What extreme anything requires you to ditch the Vanos? Vanos is the best thing that ever happened to a BMW motor. (except maybe turbos. )

I swear, a lot of times I think you guys make this stuff up as you go along.

[FredK]

PS matt wrote in bold becuz his opinion is better than yours. ;)

[asubimmer]

PS matt wrote in bold becuz his opinion is better than yours. ;)

lol nice, very nice

[matt]

PS matt wrote in bold becuz his opinion is better than yours. ;)

Opinions? I was posting facts.

[FredK]

ya ya ya I know. Knock sensors is also nice.

[02stu]

Non vanos a waste of time? No potential? I didn't say that. It is a great motor to swap in. It's just not the best. Obviously a stock M50TU is not the best either... but it's a step in the right direction.

A non vanos motor has the strongest connecting rods. Wrong. They are the largest, and the heaviest. They are not the strongest. Plus, since when is large and heavy what we're looking for in motor parts? While you're at it, it's got the largest and heaviest pistons. Is this an advantage too?

It is the only motor with dual valve springs. True, but it also has valves with 7mm stems which block more flow and require stiffer springs because they're heavier.

It has a much thicker cylinder wall then the vanos so it can be bored out. Wrong.

It has the same output. You mean the same peak HP. It has less torque, and less area under the curve.

It has the obd1 manifold. It has a metal water pump, and a metal thermostat housing. It can be reved higher. Until the rods come crashing out the sides of the block...

I would argue that a vanos motor has much more potential then a vanos for the above reasons not to mention you have to ditch vanos if you do anything extreme anyways.
What extreme anything requires you to ditch the Vanos? Vanos is the best thing that ever happened to a BMW motor. (except maybe turbos. )

I swear, a lot of times I think you guys make this stuff up as you go along.

Are you sure about that? This is what I have always been lead to believe and after spending some time on google I'm still showing the same information. What are you reading that is showing otherwise? Everything I can find is stating the following.

The Block is thicker
Connecting rods are stronger, however pistons are heavier which can make it a null point
It has a stronger valvetrain that allows it to rev higher,

Thanks
Stu

[02stu]

Anyone know if 92 m50s have mechanical lifters? I just read something about it, never heard about it before though?

[PiercedE30]

no they are still hydraulic, only things with mechanical is the euro s50b32, and s54's, unless you convert them.
also, the block is NOT thicker. I have measured it on numerous blocks I have at work. M50, M50TU, M52, etc. have no noticeable difference in cylinder wall thickness.

[So Live]

This thread is amusing. Just save your money and build a bad ass 2.9 m50 (tu or not) or just toss in a s50/52 and call it a day. Or you can always turbo the piss out of your stock m50/m52

[techno550]

Are you sure about that? This is what I have always been lead to believe and after spending some time on google I'm still showing the same information. What are you reading that is showing otherwise? Everything I can find is stating the following.

The Block is thicker
Connecting rods are stronger, however pistons are heavier which can make it a null point
It has a stronger valvetrain that allows it to rev higher,

Thanks
Stu

where is google pointing to this information?

The blocks are the same.
The rods are thicker, heavier, and shorter.
The pistons are heavier and the pin is lower.
The valves have the same diameter (33 and 30), but a thicker stem (7mm vs 6mm) so reduced flow at the same lift and more mass.
The double valve springs are necessary for the lift of the cam with the mass of the valve.

The M50 non-vanos shares a lot design wise with the M20. (rod length, piston size/shape, double valve springs, valve stem diameter, etc...
The M50TU was a large scale redesign.

As for revs, the heavy bottom end tends to not like it. I've seen more than one "blowed up" non-vanos that had a rod let go. (heavy rods + heavy pistons + revs = bad.)

How high do you want to rev the motor anyway? I'm spinning my bone stock M50TU to 7280 RPM. Even that high is pointless from a power point of view.

[02stu]

My bad, I'm wrong. I'll stay out of it.

[matt]

Or you can always turbo the piss out of your stock m50/m52

I like this option. :nice:

[shiboujin]

Kind of thread jacking and ressurecting here but what if you DO want to turbo the piss out of the engine? Wouldnt the non-vanos be a better option and handle boost better? Im thinking of taking a 92 M50B25 and making it bigger to either 2.8 or 3 liter then push 15psi.