S54

[M3 euro ltw]

Estimates for a S54 swap

I've seen several S54 engines trade for under 3K
Using a 6 speed is questionable if you're on a budget. Gears 1-5 are identical, and if you use a 5 speed, you can use the E30M3 DS as well as the factory crossmember. Save big dough.

Negotiating to buy the engine without DME, clusters, car's harness, control units etc will save money. Makes $3K S54 reasonable.

SEM should shortly be available for somewhere between $2500 and $3000 in a plug and play format. At least I hope so.

(and its what keeps me up at nights these days, besides a new baby!)

So, hard cost for engine and engine management should be under $6000, and if you can drop a motor in, you're still going to need an exhaust, upgraded radiator, some AKG mounts, mods to the crossmember, and ....some cajones to drive it!

Best of all will be SEM with all that it brings.

[Red88]

I've driven my father's e46 m3 convertible, and it's fast as shit. To imagine losing 1000lbs and have the same power is just scary to think about. I don't think I'd make it out of first gear in this car you speak of.

[FredK]

I think that an affordable way to put the S54 into E30's and E36's is just around the corner.

Course affordable is a relative term.... I wonder how this community would define affordable for full SEM and basically plug it in, and it works?

I am sure you would have a smattering of E30 people who would be interested in such a setup.

For $2500-3000 for a plug and play setup is pretty reasonable, if not on the inexpensive side of things. If the SEM is PnP to the point that it retains double Vanos and DBW, that would be truly impressive.

That is to say, I'd definitely be down. At that price I'd have a bandsaw poised right over an E30 front subframe, ready to modify it to retain the dual pickup pan and S54 oiling system.

[Jason89i]

SEM should shortly be available for somewhere between $2500 and $3000 in a plug and play format. At least I hope so.

(and its what keeps me up at nights these days, besides a new baby!)

So, hard cost for engine and engine management should be under $6000, and if you can drop a motor in, you're still going to need an exhaust, upgraded radiator, some AKG mounts, mods to the crossmember, and ....some cajones to drive it!

Best of all will be SEM with all that it brings.

Guys, Alex is not just blowing up your skirt. I know he has a few things in the works.... He just is not like most companies that SELL before they PRODUCE. In fact, there are some really cool things up his sleves.... just not ready for the market yet.

I am sure you would have a smattering of E30 people who would be interested in such a setup.

For $2500-3000 for a plug and play setup is pretty reasonable, if not on the inexpensive side of things. If the SEM is PnP to the point that it retains double Vanos and DBW, that would be truly impressive.

That is to say, I'd definitely be down. At that price I'd have a bandsaw poised right over an E30 front subframe, ready to modify it to retain the dual pickup pan and S54 oiling system.

Hey fred. when you get ready to whack that subframe, give me a shout. I moved the s54 back 4.5" to maintain the stock subframe and oiling system. firewall was reworked. so, i have a little experience with what your considering. (dont forget you will need a new sway bar setup.)

I am very behind on my project. I was hoping to get a lot of seat time this summer, but business and family trump all hobbies. Completing a few fabrication items, next is chassis wiring. I have been working with alex on the electronics. Actually, I think i have held him back a little as my car is not sitting on a dyno currently. Sorry alex.

Cheers, jason

[FredK]

Hey fred. when you get ready to whack that subframe, give me a shout. I moved the s54 back 4.5" to maintain the stock subframe and oiling system. firewall was reworked. so, i have a little experience with what your considering. (dont forget you will need a new sway bar setup.)

Yep! I've been following your progress on s14.net. I saw how you had to rework the firewall. I guess it's a case of, "pick your poison":

Firewall cut:

Pros:

• Improved weight distribution
• Front subframe remains untouched (stock sway mounting and bar can be retained)
• Ability to retain viscous clutch fan

Cons:

• HVAC (probably hot rod setup)
• Mount arms need to be fabbed
• Firewall and transmission tunnel need to be modified
• Shifter, selector rod must be modified
• Driveshaft may need to be a custom length, though the MCoupe driveshaft is pretty darn short up front

Front subframe cut:

Pros:

• Retains stock mount arms of some sort?
• Can use ZF320 (CHEAP! :mrgreen:), e30 manual crossmember, driveshaft, shifter console, selector rod

Cons:

• Weight still remains shifted forward
• Must fabricate custom swaybar and mounts
• Engine is super close to radiator, especially if a thicker one is used? Must use electric fan
• Might have to section out oilpan for one mounting ear on the rack

[mutty]

You have to see it to believe it. No hacking of the subframe or firewall. As I told you, everything is original bmw save for exhaust, engine mounts and arms. One cool, thoughtful swap.

[FredK]

The subframe and firewall do not need to be hacked if you use an E34 525i M50 oilpan, oil pump, and pickup tube. However, this is a less-ideal oiling system.

I am sure this swap is clean as hell, and awesome in that it retains stock driveability right out of the box. That is the one appeal of the stock ECM. It has been tested and proven to work from -20°F to 110°F (ok so I made these numbers up), idle smoothly, etc. I am certain it was tested in a climactic chamber at BMW in Germany, in and outside of a car, and hundreds if not thousands of man-hours were spent ensuring bulletproof reliability (well except at elevated rpm for <2003.5 cars)

[mutty]

I've seen several S54 engines trade for under 3K
Using a 6 speed is questionable if you're on a budget. Gears 1-5 are identical, and if you use a 5 speed, you can use the E30M3 DS as well as the factory crossmember. Save big dough.

Negotiating to buy the engine without DME, clusters, car's harness, control units etc will save money. Makes $3K S54 reasonable.

SEM should shortly be available for somewhere between $2500 and $3000 in a plug and play format. At least I hope so.

(and its what keeps me up at nights these days, besides a new baby!)

So, hard cost for engine and engine management should be under $6000, and if you can drop a motor in, you're still going to need an exhaust, upgraded radiator, some AKG mounts, mods to the crossmember, and ....some cajones to drive it!

Best of all will be SEM with all that it brings.

I dare you to get a drivetrain and engine management [S54] for what you are thinking. With more people[companies] sorting out the S54 electronics, motor prices are going to go through the roof so no more cheap motors. If you have the cash to spare and you are comtemplating doing this swap go get the motor whilst they are cheap and wait for the cost of the electronics to come down.

[madjurgen]

That is the one appeal of the stock ECM. It has been tested and proven to work from -20°F to 110°F (ok so I made these numbers up), idle smoothly, etc. I am certain it was tested in a climactic chamber at BMW in Germany, in and outside of a car, and hundreds if not thousands of man-hours were spent ensuring bulletproof reliability (well except at elevated rpm for <2003.5 cars)

+1
I'd much rather spend 3k getting EWS turned off as well as getting a p-n-p OEM harness from BW and get a setup that retains complete OEM reliability/driveability.

While 2.5k-3k is pretty good for the SEM hardware, how many r3v kiddies do you think are going to be able to tune a SEM from scratch for dual vanos, DBW, decent cold starts...

If youre going to make comparisons, include tuning costs in there.

A lot of people on here are unaware that there are several e30/e36s running S54s with the OEM ECU in club racing, most setup by BW I believe. All it takes is one person to purchase BW's adapted harness, reverse-engineer it and post findings. Then all you need is someone to turn EWS off and I'm pretty sure there are many companies(esp overseas) that are able to do that now.

I'm nervous enough sticking a baffled M50 pan on a shitty M52. No way in hell would I slap it on a S54.

[M3 euro ltw]

RE: Oilpan pumps E34, dual pick up etc...

Great points!

Keep in mind that you don't hear about thousands of E30 M20 engine cars having oil starvation problems on the track. Why?

Well, under braking, where does the oil go? To the front where the sump is, and its picked up just fine.

In an E36 rear sumped pan, where does it go? Yeah... away from the sump, unless you run the dual pickup LTW/S50B32 or S54 set up.

When PTG ran the early E36 cars with S50B30 engines and pans, they immediately had problems... then we saw the dual pickup pan show up in the GT International 400 odd cars in europe with tweaked cams/dme/intake trumpets, cam carrier/oilpan set ups....Then in the US LTW, then in the S50B32 production engine.

A reasonable support of this idea came from a buddy CR who had the E34 pan setup on his CM race car S50B32....never an issue with oil. Pulled engine, put on a stock US pan/pump in an E36, and IMMEDIATELY had issues in racing... put on the dual pickup, no issues. The E34 pan was fine under extreme circumstances.

More to come, back to patients in the office.... go late on Tuesdays...
Alex.

(Hint, what if the SEM comes from your dealer fully programmed to run your stock S54? Then you don't need the dyno at all now, do you? It won't take too many customers to defray the initial cost of dyno tuning for the dealer...besides the dealer can't charge too much for it, or one of his customers will gut him, and just sell it on their own anyway!)

[matt]

Hi Alex, (right?)

SEM is "standalone engine management"?

If you're interested, there are standalone ECUs that provide for password protection of the tunes stored within. Not sure how secure they are against a sophisticated attempt to extract the data, but they would certainly keep the casual copy-cat out. AEM's new ECU is one from the top of my head.

I still believe the stock ECU and harness are the way to go. But I may be biased. :)

[M3 euro ltw]

SEM, locking the code..etc...

Yes, Standalone Engine Management.

Well... I may be naive. No.... I am.

My thought is that if you're buying SEM, one of the real advantages is that you can tune yourself. (or more importantly.... fine tune)

So a customer who theoretically buys a P&P SEM kit might drop in the S54 in stock form. Pay a small amount to get a fully tuned DME....run it for a year... save up some dough... then they can dump the US headers for KK headers, Supersprint or Euro headers... and, go to the dyno and re-tune it themselves very easily. Want to go with a CF intake? Do so! retune it yourself. Want to drop cams in? Do so! retune yourself. Spin a bearing? Rebuild with stroke and bumped compression? Retune yourself... With powerful DA options, some could even be done easily at a track day if the owner knew their stuff.

See, the beauty of a SEM system is that you can DIY to some extent, ie find a local dyno, a tuner who knows what they're doing, and fine tune it. Key is "fine" tune, not starting from scratch makes it affordable. For people that want to go to the next level, with SEM, they can bolt on SC or Turbo if they're willing to take that risk....Having a strong base map gets you started though.

*************************

TRM rocks by the way, no Diss intended.....If TRM were in everyone's back yard, and you could go there to have your stock DME retuned for cams, headers, intake whatever, yeah.... but TRM is not "dime a dozen" on every corner, in every city.

Yes, Alex. Will check sig/profile if that was missing!

[mutty]

Great point being made,M3 euro ltw, but for the average guy who is stuggling to complete an M/S 50/52 on a budget; do you figure out a way he could do the S54 without breaking the bank?

[Jason89i]

No questions about it! Its not for everyone. The s54 swap should NOT be considered by ......

the average guy who is stuggling to complete an M/S 50/52 on a budget;

Alex is NOT catering to the average r3v guy who boast about how cheap his swap was.

However, there are a few of us here that desperately want an s54 and want to unleash what the factory left on the table..... without "breaking the bank."

cheers, jason

[FredK]

Jason, one thing I didn't notice about sectioning the E30 front subframe is that the dual pickup pan hammerheads towards the driver's side, such that it requires removal of the left steering rack mounting ear!

I don't think there's any room to move the engine rearward without having to make firewall modifications, right?

This is making me seriously consider the 525i pan and an accusump.