M54 (dual vanos engine) swap thread. MS42, MS43, MS45.1

[kendogg]

sorry e46m trailing arms are lighter than e36m. not 330

who knows where the magical power is from ; perhaps i mean torque; neither make any power and are really intended for fetching groceries- if you want power install a S54.

its not like my ass dyno can actually measure anything accurately when on track in a car anyways.

You sure seem to do a lot of hating on the M54 for somebody that can't tell the damn difference :yawn:

[Wanganstyle]

sorry e46m trailing arms are lighter than e36m. not 330

who knows where the magical power is from ; perhaps i mean torque; neither make any power and are really intended for fetching groceries- if you want power install a S54.

its not like my ass dyno can actually measure anything accurately when on track in a car anyways.

[kendogg]

Between a e36 m3 (mine)
And a e46 330i

The e36m has a shorter driveshaft yes; by a marginal amount- About 3 inches;

e36m and e46 330i both use 96mm guibo and zf 320 gearbox;

both use a light dual mass 240mm clutch.

S52 dual mass 22#
M54b30 dual mass for 6 speed 20#

If 6 speed the 22 spline involuted clutch is more efficient; bmw has a technical public data sheet on this.

If the 330 is a 6mt 330i it's at an advantage as zf6 has less power loss at the rear wheels and the same length driveshaft as an zf5.

The e36m uses large 96mm cv ' s identical to the e46 330i. The e46 has lighter hubs and trailing arms; it's more efficient.

My E46 325i has aluminum front arms and rear arms and front x brace for suspension; my 98m3 has all steel for those parts.

E46 is more efficient on power.

Stock vs stock s52b32 vs m54b30 is no contest on the front straight of thunder hill raceway; it's the difference of sheer horsepower; more than 10 to the ground- I'd say about 20 usable rwhp on the front straight of any track if the cars are lined side by side headed in..

I'm not gonna bother with the rest of the hyperbole, but I bolded the part I know for a fact is wrong. E46 330i uses the exact same rear trailing arm & hub as an E36 M3. It even has 'M' stamped into it. Same brakes as well. Put both cars on the scale and tell me which one is heavier overall. If there's a 20 rwhp difference, and as you stated nearly all the running gear is the same size/weight (within reason) - where did this magical extra 10 rwhp come from?? The E46 330i is rated at 233 bhp/222 ft./lbs, the E36 M3 is rated at 240 bhp/240 ft./lbs.

[Wanganstyle]

True, E46 is bigger, driveshaft is longer (more rotating mass), CV shafts are thicker (more rotating mass). E36 will respond better to any engine than E46 would.

Between a e36 m3 (mine)
And a e46 330i

The e36m has a shorter driveshaft yes; by a marginal amount- About 3 inches;

e36m and e46 330i both use 96mm guibo and zf 320 gearbox;

both use a light dual mass 240mm clutch.

S52 dual mass 22#
M54b30 dual mass for 6 speed 20#

If 6 speed the 22 spline involuted clutch is more efficient; bmw has a technical public data sheet on this.

If the 330 is a 6mt 330i it's at an advantage as zf6 has less power loss at the rear wheels and the same length driveshaft as an zf5.

The e36m uses large 96mm cv ' s identical to the e46 330i. The e46 has lighter hubs and trailing arms; it's more efficient.

My E46 325i has aluminum front arms and rear arms and front x brace for suspension; my 98m3 has all steel for those parts.

E46 is more efficient on power.

Stock vs stock s52b32 vs m54b30 is no contest on the front straight of thunder hill raceway; it's the difference of sheer horsepower; more than 10 to the ground- I'd say about 20 usable rwhp on the front straight of any track if the cars are lined side by side headed in..

[DesertBMW]

It's a 10 hp difference, but the E46 is easily 150-200 lbs heavier or more. Not a fair comparison at all.

True, E46 is bigger, driveshaft is longer (more rotating mass), CV shafts are thicker (more rotating mass). E36 will respond better to any engine than E46 would.

[kendogg]

M54 is a great engine; it's a lot newer and lighter. M54b25 is seemingly as useful for every day torque as m52b28

However on track comparing a stock engine e36m and a stock engine 330zhp is silly;

the 36m will gap on every straight on sheer horsepower. I instruct and a fellow instructor has a 330; it corners flatter than me as its on coilovers but I walk him all day without effort; the power differential makes the gap too large to close; just like e36m and e46m lapping together...... cornering speeds are similar but on the straight say goodbye to s54.

It's a 10 hp difference, but the E46 is easily 150-200 lbs heavier or more. Not a fair comparison at all.

[Wanganstyle]

M54 is a great engine; it's a lot newer and lighter. M54b25 is seemingly as useful for every day torque as m52b28

However on track comparing a stock engine e36m and a stock engine 330zhp is silly;

the 36m will gap on every straight on sheer horsepower. I instruct and a fellow instructor has a 330; it corners flatter than me as its on coilovers but I walk him all day without effort; the power differential makes the gap too large to close; just like e36m and e46m lapping together...... cornering speeds are similar but on the straight say goodbye to s54.

[MikeDE]

This is sweet. If I find a nice enough E34, i'll be throwing in an m52b28tu w/ this tune.

[greanthumb]

Just found a line on a m54b30. Serious consideration right now

[kendogg]

Wow.. I'll be finding some kind of E30 to stick my M54B25 in once its out of my touring and the M54B30 is in.. Great torquey motor for a light E30 for sure!

FYI: the S50/52 is no more a true M engine than any other M5x engine. including the M54 series... The only reason the S50/52 have more power up top - camshafts that's it.. The same head casting is used on ALL M50,52,S50/52 motors... An M54B30 with Schrieck cams will make more power than a cammed S50/52... Putting the M50 manifold on the M54B25/30 motor tends to loose power...

I track my touring, until the E30M3/S54 is back up, to date its been a reliable motor seeing more and more 3E46 30i's at the track in the last two years. No need to rev any M5x over 7k. I normally shift at 6500-6800.

Hi Gary!! :wavey:


So the m54b30 intake manifold DOES outflow the m50? Thats even better news. And thank god somebody else finally agrees with me that the S52 is nothing special. Just a bored, stroked, and cammed M52 :)

[kendogg]

As I said a thousand times, it's a great motor overall. But it is not really able to hang with a healthy S5x at speed. I have tracked my M54 car; power was adequate but it was far from an exciting motor and left me wanting more. S5x cars I have driven and ridden in (many) have all had healthy top ends. You seem to be touting this motor as a cheaper lighter replacement for an S5x and
I disagree. The S5x is a more sports-oriented motor, M54 is more DD. One is not altogether better than the other.

I should add that I'm not trying to discount the information or work you've put into making this a more accessible swap, nor do I want to discount the swap as a whole. I would definitely like an M54 E30 dd (though the MS43/45 low-rpm throttle lag is annoying). But if you are after ultimate power and potential, this is not the swap I'd perform. Also, don't overheat it. :p

Custom tuning and radically changing the VANOS tables completely negates anything you've just stated. The engine was tuned for a DD. Re-tune it for a track worthy vehicle, and some of that power can be move dup in the RPM range. I'm curious if anybody has flow tested the m54b30 intake manifold yet vs the m50 and S52 manifolds.

[GGray]

Wow.. I'll be finding some kind of E30 to stick my M54B25 in once its out of my touring and the M54B30 is in.. Great torquey motor for a light E30 for sure!

FYI: the S50/52 is no more a true M engine than any other M5x engine. including the M54 series... The only reason the S50/52 have more power up top - camshafts that's it.. The same head casting is used on ALL M50,52,S50/52 motors... An M54B30 with Schrieck cams will make more power than a cammed S50/52... Putting the M50 manifold on the M54B25/30 motor tends to loose power...

I track my touring, until the E30M3/S54 is back up, to date its been a reliable motor seeing more and more 3E46 30i's at the track in the last two years. No need to rev any M5x over 7k. I normally shift at 6500-6800.

[hoveringuy]

My $0.02 with about 4 years on the swap now:

1) An alternate method to mounting the temperature sensor is to use the stock E46 quick connector that was originally at the output side of the radiator and move it to the outlet of the water pump. You will now have a mounting bung, but the sensor will need to be separately grounded since it's in plastic. I haven't tried the block mount, it's a great idea!

2) I used a generic e-Bay fuel pressure regulator that cost $15 and it worked fine with both the stock returnless rail and a flow-through rail. I noticed no difference between the two.

3) An M50 throttle body will mount to the M54 manifold kinda, sortof. It will be rotated about 10 degrees and you'll need to make an 8mm spacer but I had no issues with that configuration in 18 months before I switched to a custom fabbed TB. It will allow you to use stock accelerator pedal.

4) The stock crank sensor is Hall. A VR drop-in replacement is the M44 crank sensor. Same fit and form.

5) I've been running the Getrag 260 with 3.25 diff. The torque combines nicely with this ratio. My observed mileage is 28/22. Stock clutch and especially pressure plate will shred. I switched to a heavier duty PP and a Kevlar clutch disc.

6) The M54 is not Motorsports. If I tracked the car I would prefer an S50 or S52 even if the 0-60 might be slower. My 1/4 et is mid 13's with 104 trap so it's not exactly slow, either. It's a phenomenal stoplight brawler and sublime DD. Light steering and bottomless torque. The DISA intake works like magic. I don't track the car, I commute; so this motor is better for me.

7) All of the usual M50 headers fit the same.

8 ) Megasquirt now support VANOS and with the elimination of the mass airflow sensor the motor gains power. I forget that I have Megasquirt, starts cold and idles like stock plus Megasquirt handles light fly wheels easily and lets me run TRACTION CONTROL! See www.m54megasquirt3.blogspot.com My next project is to ditch my m50 harness and build a from-scratch harness (or modify an M54 harness) for the Megasquirt.

9) Aluminum blocks are pretty.

[JinormusJ]

M54 swap information thread. Cheap and easy.

In reference to the oil pump I personally would go with a custom subframe to work with the M54's oil pan rather than trying to modify the pickup to work with an E34 pan.

THIS

Even though an e34 pan bolts up, going with the m54 oil pan eliminates the need for a skid-plate because it is rear-sump and all, and high enough that if you were to go over an oilpan-busting bump, you'd hit steering rack and subframe before doing any damage to the pan



I've also wondered if it is smarter to go s52 oilpan and rework the subframe than use the e34 pan. The only good thing about the e34 pan is "plug-and-play"-ability, other than that, you gotta drill an engine oil sensor and it's much too low..

[Andrew325is]

Thanks for all the good info! But I don't agree that it's a cheaper swap than an S52 unless you went with a high mileage engine. Low mileage M54b30's still cost $2k+ and $600 for the ECU flash puts it farther ahead. I do believe it's a better engine for everyday driving than a US S50 or S52. A BMW with an M54b30 feels more responsive to me than an S50'd car especially in the lower RPM's. The M54 also feels considerably more smooth. I'd say if you want a responsive smooth running engine that gets great fuel economy the M54 is the way to go but if you like a more raw and rev happy engine go with the S50/S52. In reference to the oil pump I personally would go with a custom subframe to work with the M54's oil pan rather than trying to modify the pickup to work with an E34 pan.