8hp45

[hoveringuy]

Better clearance pics. These are probably the best E30-8HP45 pics anywhere, most of my previous information was "it fits, trust me bro..."


The plug area on the right side has a full pencil width. The face is actually on the other side of that bump so it's more than it looks.




On the left it's about the same. It's on the other side of that hump and about a pencil width.



Looking down the top. Solid 1 3/4" everywhere.






So, 8HP45 clears fine and some of those aluminum flanges could even be taken down. 8HP70 is bigger, I believe, so no guarantees there...

[Caperix]

Looking good, it looks like your fill plug is low enough that it will be accessible as long as the exhaust is not too close. How bad is it to get the transmission connector out for service/repair? On the transmission mount did you try the factory mount from a rwd e84 x1? Apparently that mount makes the zf8 drop in to e36/46 cars.

[hoveringuy]

Looking good, it looks like your fill plug is low enough that it will be accessible as long as the exhaust is not too close. How bad is it to get the transmission connector out for service/repair? On the transmission mount did you try the factory mount from a rwd e84 x1? Apparently that mount makes the zf8 drop in to e36/46 cars.

The transmission connector will only come out by removing the the crossbar. How often will that need to be removed/accessed?

I'm doing the pan/filter/fluid today. I don't have a cooler yet so I wont' get terribly anal on the proper fill level, I'll just start it a few times to fill the TC.

This is what RealOEM shows for the E84 X1. I'd need to compare E30 to E36, but I know the one mounting location is completely up in left field on the E30.....

I have not abandoned just using the original 8HP rear attach fitting as shown here, it would work fine but I can't use it until I re-route my exhaust to avoid interfering with where the cross bar would need to go.

[hoveringuy]

Another detail. I have a giant hole where my shifter once sat and I need to mount my auto shifter.

There are about 12 different ways this can be done, anything from paddle shifters to sequential shifters. The coolest ones are the M5 shifters, but this F30 shifter was $50 and will work great until I change my mind.

I added two M6 weld-nuts to the tunnel. There are some stampings in the metal there where it looks like the factory may have had some plastic nuts on some models; I went in the middle of those.

I will probably place the CANTCU directly in front of the shifter and the entire thing will get covered by a new console at some point. (I may even mount this guy in there... https://rmracingelectronics.com/shop...AK2EhQif09fUXd)

There are a TON of cool products coming-out that support the 8HP, and the E30 digital dash would also be a good match.

I'll make some kind of a plug for the hole.

[DesertBMW]

hoveringuy that is amazing, all I got is respect for your work

[hoveringuy]

hoveringuy that is amazing, all I got is respect for your work

Thanks!

Electronic integration!

There were several different ways I could have tackled the integration of the transmission, the two most popular being CANTCU and TurboLamik, as well as MaxxECU. The TurboLamik replaces 100% of the electronics in the TCU with a bridge and controls the solenoids directly, whereas the CANTCU keeps all of the factory electronics in the TCU and just tells them what to do. The CANTCU philosophy is that ZF threw thousands of German engineers at the problem and spent $Billions developing the algorithms and control strategy to make a great transmission, why throw all that away?

The TurboLamik gives you direct control, but that also means that every table and parameter needs to fine-tuned. The CANTCU is more "just tell me when you want to shift...".

So, CANTCU also very recently upgraded their software to the Race+ Beta which very much levels it with the very capable TurboLamik, adding trans brake, NIC, virtual clutch and so on.

My experience with the CANTCU has been great so far. The TCU flasher is built right in so that I didn't have to do anything weird to flash the TCU out of it's EWS-locked factory configuration. It's just a tool in the software and it took 5 minutes. With the MaxxECU, for instance, it's a whole "thing" to get the ECU flashed which usually means mailing it to someone.

The shifter is connected and communicating properly, I also have the proper brake signal to the ECU and that is being transmitted over CAN.

I can start the car on jacks at this point, apply the brake and shift into gears. I haven't broached different modes like ECO, SPORT, SPORT+, etc.

I'll have the driveshaft Monday, then I'll need to install that along with the exhaust and warm the car so I can top the fluid.


The CANTCU sits ingloriously in the glovebox for now. I got the shifter low enough that I no longer want it on the tunnel. I'll properly mount it later.




Shifter is super-solid. I'll figure-out the console later.




This is super-cool....
I was worried about how my ECU would be flashed into "automatic" mode from manual, because it needs to be in automatic mode to do torque cuts, blips and so on.

It just kinda happened, like magic.

[hoveringuy]

Sorry, no pictures today.

I've been trying to drive it at least every day to get used to the new transmission. I'm *almost* not stabbing for the clutch at every stop sign.

So far, it's been super-fun!

8th gear is basically a double-overdrive and went from .85 in the GS6-17 to a .67 final drive which drops my rpms by around 20%. With my 3.15 differential the car is really civilized at 70mph, only turning like 2100rpm

First gear dropped from a 4.32 to a 4.7 and is almost useless except for crawling traffic, but I have SEVEN other gears to chose from!


I consider the "Drive" mode grandpa mode, but stabbing the pedal will still instantly drop 2 gears and unleash the Kraken.

"Sport" mode is a lot like "Drive" but the shift points are all much higher.

"Manual" mode will hold any gear within rpm limits and shift when commanded. The integration between the ECU and the CANTCU is happening and it's kind of magical; the engine will blip and rev-match for downshifts. It brings a huge grin!

Servicing the fluid in this thing is kindof an ass-kicker, the transmission needs to be warmed to a precise temperature, like drinking good Sake, and then run through the gears and filled WHILE it's running, which also means re-installing the fill plug which happens to be directly next to the exhaust....
I still have some slight hydraulic sounds coming from the tunnel, can't tell if it's pump cavitation or just high pressure fluid moving through an orifice.

To do: I'm working on cleaning-up the interior with a new console and figuring-out how to get the AIM Solo to listen to the 8HP CAN traffic.

[DesertBMW]

"The TurboLamik replaces 100% of the electronics in the TCU with a bridge and controls the solenoids directly, whereas the CANTCU keeps all of the factory electronics in the TCU and just tells them what to do."

Can you explain this further?

[hoveringuy]

Can you explain this further?

The TCU has its own processor and firmware. The DME will normally just send a command to "shift up" and the TCU will handle the details and figure-out which solenoids to engage, delays, line pressure and coordination to make that happen, it may send a torque reduction request to the DME for a split second.

Turbolamik rips all that stuff out and just has you install a jumper board.



You need to rip-out the computer and solder that in. What happens is that the solenoids become wired directly to the Turbolamik and it controls all the solenoids directly, no more intermediary processing. The good news is that you have direct control, but the bad news is that you also need to tune a lot of stuff to make it work as seamlessly as ZF did.

That's my understanding of it.

[hoveringuy]

I've been driving my car a lot more than I had in the past. It's just SO easy with the 8HP!

but, it's just screaming for paddle shifters. Not sure if there's any reasonable way to retrofit those to my Mtech wheel, so...

I've ordered an F series steering column on Ebay! $20, delivered. From S. Carolina to Seattle, lol.

The big deal is that I could use a late model clock spring assembly and late model paddle shifters that rotate with the wheel.

PLUS since I would be mounting the SZL (steering angle sensor) I would be really close to getting full DSC since I already have a MK60E5 ABS.



I don't think I'd use the full shaft, I'd want to make it drop in compatible with an E30 airbag column. F series also doesn't have a physical key as we know it. This is just a plausibility study for now.

[hoveringuy]

I ordered an F-series steering column to see if it would be remotely possible to retrofit into an E30. Turns-out, it will be relatively simple with some patience!


The complete unit is a chungas! If you wanted to keep pre-facelift geometry it would actually be pretty easy; just make new upper and lower mounts.

I happen to hate the early geometry and want airbag geometry, so...




It gets cut. It could be even shorter but there happens to be a rib right here that I'd like to keep. The bearing has been freed from it's lower journal. You can see the hinge at the bottom mount for the "tilt" part of the wheel...
The mounting bracket for the tilt mechanism and the locking lever needs to come off.



It ends-up about an inch longer than an airbag column. I know that's fine because my EPAS column was even longer than that.




Here's the fun part. There's going to be a 3D printed cap that locates the bearing and provides some mounting points. I don't like welding steering shafts so the spline will be a press-in and swedged tool steel print.

The actual mounting adapter I haven't drawn yet but will be simple. BONUS! The telescoping still works and because the mount is modular I could also make it tilt and telescope in the future!



My new end fitting. It will get tacked in place, then the bearing gets pressed, then the spline gets pressed in the shaft.




The small print:

Late model cars don't have ignition tumblers, they have fobs. Do I mount an ignition in the usual place that has no column locking feautures, put it next to the light switch ala Porsche 911, or just go with an IGN switch and Start button like a proper race car?

The wipers and blinkers (and horn) are all controlled through the SZL module and forwarded as LIN and/or CAN traffic. I'll need to make a module that intercepts, reads and controls with MOSFET the original function.

[TobyB]

I don't think I'd use the full shaft

This is R3v. You have to take the full shaft...

Nostalgia out of the way,
I am in awe of how deep you're willing to dive into adapting things.
And thanks for posting up the details!

As someone who has no compunction about welding his suspension, steering, brakes,
subframe, whatever, I freely admit that I don't know the current state of 3d metal printing.

the spline will be a press-in and swedged tool steel print.

Last I'd heard, 3d prints were still relatively brittle- am I out of date?

your fan,
t

[hoveringuy]

As someone who has no compunction about welding his suspension, steering, brakes,
subframe, whatever, I freely admit that I don't know the current state of 3d metal printing.

Last I'd heard, 3d prints were still relatively brittle- am I out of date?

I dunno, my son is the Mech-E and he was on the 5 year program so not sure he knows, either....

I think SLS printed metal is generally as strong or stronger than the milled counterpart but the tradeoff is that it's more brittle and has a little less toughness. It won't stretch or elongate quite as much.

The mitigation is to give everything chunky wall thickness and give all the corners a nice filet. I've absolutely reefed on some extra pieces I've had and been 100% satisfied at how strong it is, in any case.

I'm having it printed out of 18Ni300 with heat treatment. Here's the AI summary:

"3D-printed 18Ni300 maraging steel (such as EOS MS1) reaches an as-built tensile strength of roughly 1,100–1,165 MPa, which increases dramatically to 1,900–2,014 MPa (with hardness rising to 50–55 HRC) after a standard aging heat treatment around 485 °C to 500 °C for 3 to 6 hours."

6061-T6 is in the 300 MPa range and 316 stainless around 600.

2000 should be fine, I'm not taking chances on my steering!

[hoveringuy]

Making progress... The shaft splne and the rear cap to the shaft housing are being printed, plus I got a 2nd $25 column as my "actual" one. (much more careful not to get cutting grit in the bearings, etc.)

Also received my notional steering wheel. This one actually has the wrong size spline (20mm vs 18mm) and doesn't fit, but it's a $90 Chinese wheel so perfect for development. I'll be more careful ordering next time and I know what to look for now.

I compared it to my Mtech 2 and it's slightly smaller, maybe 370mm compared to my 385.

I'm also pretty sure I want to keep the full tilt and telescoping, because I can and for the lolz. Also, the aluminum column housing is remarkably lighter than a steel airbag housing.