N54 swap?

[the imitator]

Do you mean that running arp and mls on a stock, healthy M50 (to turbo later on) will cause reliability issues? I'm new to this but from all the research I've done that doesn't seem correct.

Not hard at all to find multiple threads on people with issues, there has been 2 in the past 2 days. r3v members, but posting on facebook. You simply dont see consistency out with failures of those engines.

Even with all the prep work most of the time, they might last a while in SOME cases, so far i see maybe 3, or 4 GOOD examples of a reliable m5x/s5x car running stock everything making 400hp reliably, and has been for in such a period of time that you can call it a daily.

[pandaboo911]

You don't need an mls unless you go past 25psi. Anything under a paper gasket with o-rings will do.

I think the cutring gaskets are the best. Screw mls, too many things to go wrong


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Northern]

Do you mean that running arp and mls on a stock, healthy M50 (to turbo later on) will cause reliability issues? I'm new to this but from all the research I've done that doesn't seem correct.

I have heard a lot of MLS failures on 24v's. If your prep is 100% on point, you should be alright.

[AllydNYC]

When it comes down to it though, we all know, that running arp, mls, on a stock m50/m20 you have yourself a PROJECT car,
not a daily driver. It can be done yes, but how many have run that setup 20,000 miles a year for a couple years straight without a major failure,
I've seen almost no one, they are fun while they last.

Do you mean that running arp and mls on a stock, healthy M50 (to turbo later on) will cause reliability issues? I'm new to this but from all the research I've done that doesn't seem correct.

[328ijunkie]

love it. Though we need to remove ews.

[nando]

yeah, I understand that - but for most people, that's way too much wiring, even if it's just unplugging and plugging things back in. If there was a way around that, there'd be way more swaps like yours.

If my EWS bypass doesn't work out, I'll have to do basically the same thing you are doing. I was actually thinking I could gut a cluster and use the LCD display where the E30 check panel is - then I could do things like SI reset and check the oil level. as it happens I've got an E90 parts cluster I could use for such a project.

[the imitator]

I don't put 15,000 miles a year total on any of my cars, lol. That's an arbitrary distinction for a DD.


Sure an S52 makes similar power - but it's also a lot heavier. M50 isn't even close. And an N52 isn't especially expensive. It's not like you're going to easily break 260whp on an S52 without lots of mods either.

Not an N52 thread. But it was 261whp at 7400rpm, not 8,000 - pretty impressive really, all stock motor. That was with an N54 manifold they just threw on to test with. It could make more power at a higher RPM but needs solid lifters to support it (hydraulic lifters bleed out and collapse).


That might be true somewhat, but come on - you're swapping the entire drivetrain from a 335i lol. Your car is as much of a project as anyones. :p

There are lots of long term turbo E30s and E36s. There are lots of crappy ones of course that blow up after 6 months, but that doesn't mean it can't be done..



I don't know about lack of drivability. One of my buddies built his M20 for boost, and that thing made power instantly - it was fast, smooth and reliable. it was insane. I wouldn't say the drivability was poor in the least!

I think you sort of missed my original point anyway. It's too bad the N54 electronics are such a bitch to swap - because you can do something similar with an M52 or S52 that's way easier to put into an E30. That was my point. Having a motor that's boosted making 300hp stock is pretty cool - BMW just made it a pain in the ass to run it outside the original car. It's not going to be for many people unfortunately - you will be one of the few to accomplish it.

FWIW - you could categorize my E30 as a project car. I only put a couple thousand miles on it last year, and 0 the year before that. But not having it as my DD gives me the flexibility and time to do projects like this.. otherwise, it would be stock. I don't have time anymore to mess around with my DD. :(

Have you yourself actually physically pulled a harness out of a 335i? Or perhaps lay a full body harness out and know what is needed?
If not let me squash some rumors in regards to how much of a "bitch" this is..
Fair to admit, this isn't the only "n54 swap??" thread made,
facts from the beginning are important.

The wiring just like E30s, and every other model, spans on the driver, and passenger side of the car.
Removal of the dash is easy as cake on the e9x cars, and you cant mistaken for which way the connectors go since they're all proprietary to their own module.
Everything is very easy to identify, the abs, and wheel sensor connectors are the same that we have all seen for the past 20 years now.
Door electronics, and seat harness's also easily observed and tucked away, or done with however you wish.

Furthermore, just like on E30s and about every other model, there is a hole on each side of the firewall for wiring/fusebox.
You can see in my picture here that it wraps around just as normal.
The 335i wiring will install in a very similar fashion, In reality it's actually stupid,stupid simple, Nando. We already have
members who have performed Manual swaps on our engines and know what it takes to have an error/light free dashboard,
and you can buy Icarly for cheap to perform a quick painless battery registration.

Nando, although the e30 in itself is a project, the wiring, and engine is running unmodified, on unmodified harness's, DME, modules, etc.
If anything it is the more reliable side of the "project".
You too can skip that going n52 by doing a very simple wiring swap, if this were science..... and you want maximum controls over variables, well certainly going with stock everything is a way to have a control.
Bonus! at the end of the day you can still hook up rheingold and ISTA-P, NCS expert, or whatever software you choose.

*Raises hand*

It's an s52 but basically the same


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

COUNT IT! :D Got to see that lovely delphin goodness in person.

[pandaboo911]

Pretty common for people to slap an MLS or cutring/spacer and ARP's and pump out 500+ with a tune on the stock ECU for the m5x.

*Raises hand*

It's an s52 but basically the same


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[nando]

haven't had problems with mine. I have 2 - soon to be 3. but, whatever floats your boat right?

M54 would be cool but the high RPM harmonics kills it for me.

[goarmy]

Although an LSX makes a lot of sense

Just take a time and watch how beautiful this MTech II handles with a M54.

Outside cornering view comes in after minute 2:50

[goarmy]

IMO I stay away from the N52.. after that, then the front bolt blew too got rid of it...

[nando]

You can do it, but for how long, a daily driver isn't a car that only does 15,000 miles a year.

I don't put 15,000 miles a year total on any of my cars, lol. That's an arbitrary distinction for a DD.

QFT on the rest of that for sure, The n52 at best with a stage 3 disa makes what.. 250-260hp
at best with almost no more room for power unless you go with a motorsports ecu.
Unless you're using a newer n52 with a stage 3 disa, tuned, with headers etc, $$$$
you may as well save tons of money and go
grab an m5x/s5x like you said; it will do the exact same thing as an N52 and makes around the same power.

Sure an S52 makes similar power - but it's also a lot heavier. M50 isn't even close. And an N52 isn't especially expensive. It's not like you're going to easily break 260whp on an S52 without lots of mods either.

right now on a different forum there's a guy that completely removed the DISA valve, cut the manifold in half, and essentially
has plastic short runners with zero filtration, he made 261hp on the dyno at 8000rpm,
but made peak power way before that.
Still seems like a lot of work, and money
for a gain that you'll notice.

Not an N52 thread. But it was 261whp at 7400rpm, not 8,000 - pretty impressive really, all stock motor. That was with an N54 manifold they just threw on to test with. It could make more power at a higher RPM but needs solid lifters to support it (hydraulic lifters bleed out and collapse).

When it comes down to it though, we all know, that running arp, mls, on a stock m50/m20 you have yourself a PROJECT car,
not a daily driver. It can be done yes, but how many have run that setup 20,000 miles a year for a couple years straight without a major failure,
I've seen almost no one, they are fun while they last.

That might be true somewhat, but come on - you're swapping the entire drivetrain from a 335i lol. Your car is as much of a project as anyones. :p

There are lots of long term turbo E30s and E36s. There are lots of crappy ones of course that blow up after 6 months, but that doesn't mean it can't be done..

Great to see we have so much optimism for those swaps though, and I absolutely see yours, and nando's point
regarding a poor mans turbo setup,
but to say they're similar is comical, m20s, and m50s arent built specifically for boost, and the drivability
is off the charts %100 percent different.

I don't know about lack of drivability. One of my buddies built his M20 for boost, and that thing made power instantly - it was fast, smooth and reliable. it was insane. I wouldn't say the drivability was poor in the least!

I think you sort of missed my original point anyway. It's too bad the N54 electronics are such a bitch to swap - because you can do something similar with an M52 or S52 that's way easier to put into an E30. That was my point. Having a motor that's boosted making 300hp stock is pretty cool - BMW just made it a pain in the ass to run it outside the original car. It's not going to be for many people unfortunately - you will be one of the few to accomplish it.

FWIW - you could categorize my E30 as a project car. I only put a couple thousand miles on it last year, and 0 the year before that. But not having it as my DD gives me the flexibility and time to do projects like this.. otherwise, it would be stock. I don't have time anymore to mess around with my DD. :(

[grinchxvx]

With that being said an e30 is a lot lighter so you don't need that much power, that's part of the reason 500 whp is a common goal for these cars. I bet a 500 whp e30 can hang with a top mount n54 easily


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[grinchxvx]

My 135i has been on e85/meth for almost 50k miles making close or at least 500 hp. I just like the fact that the n54 engine is basically bullet proof. Payam runs a 600-700whp top mount turbo setup and has been going for almost 30k miles. And he's not even the only one doing it. No m5x is Doing that unopened on stock everything like the n54 will


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[the imitator]

Pretty common for people to slap an MLS or cutring/spacer and ARP's and pump out 500+ with a tune on the stock ECU for the M5x.

You can do it, but for how long, a daily driver isn't a car that only does 15,000 miles a year.

Shit crank harmonics are probably a big thing, and there's nothing particularly good about it other than the aluminum block. May as well do an E36 engine more easily/cheaper/better if that's your argument.



That's fair. I wasn't really thinking from a swap perspective, just a "two GT35Rs is extremely unnecessary" point of view. If I'm changing that much of what it has going for it, I may as well take a $300 M52 and throw boost at it instead though.

QFT on the rest of that for sure, The n52 at best with a stage 3 disa makes what.. 250-260hp
at best with almost no more room for power unless you go with a motorsports ecu.
Unless you're using a newer n52 with a stage 3 disa, tuned, with headers etc, $$$$
you may as well save tons of money and go
grab an m5x/s5x like you said; it will do the exact same thing as an N52 and makes around the same power.

right now on a different forum there's a guy that completely removed the DISA valve, cut the manifold in half, and essentially
has plastic short runners with zero filtration, he made 261hp on the dyno at 8000rpm,
but made peak power way before that.
Still seems like a lot of work, and money
for a gain that you'll notice.

Bringing this back to its Origin though, If people are going to compare an n54 with a m50 turbo, or m20 turbo,
same can be said even easier when comparing an n52 to other N/A bmw motors except the n52 is less reliable, and more technical,
seems like all it has going for it is weight reduction,
and a tiny jump in hp for a cost difference I'd rather not know about.

When it comes down to it though, we all know, that running arp, mls, on a stock m50/m20 you have yourself a PROJECT car,
not a daily driver. It can be done yes, but how many have run that setup 20,000 miles a year for a couple years straight without a major failure,
I've seen almost no one, they are fun while they last.

Great to see we have so much optimism for those swaps though, and I absolutely see yours, and nando's point
regarding a poor mans turbo setup,
but to say they're similar is comical, m20s, and m50s arent built specifically for boost, and the drivability
is off the charts %100 percent different.