N52 Swap Discussion

[hoveringuy]

The stock steel pan is 8 1/2 lbs, don't know about the Al one. I'll weigh mine when I get it back in a few days, but the weight gain won't be substantial and it will have decent baffling and a dip stick!

We've been discussing final treatment regarding paint, or not to paint. The outside will certainly be painted, but there's mixed opinions on painting on the inside. I'll also look into having it acid dipped and cadmium plated.

Another detail to be determined is how the baffle gets attached. Tack it directly to the pan, or weld some tabs on and rivet to the tabs?

I think I've talked Gareth into having a pressure plate cut to bolt onto the pan. We'll pressurize with a bicycle pump through a Schroeder valve, look for soap bubbles.

Steel TIG is easy. I sometimes touch the filler rod to the tungsten and I can still finish the pass. I think Aluminum isn't as tolerant.

[nando]

I'm sure it's heavier - the aluminum pan is pretty light, and there's the stamped steel pan as well. But overall it's going to be nothing compared to the lighter engine overall.

Welds look fine. It's not structural, it just has to not leak! although, I would recommend doing a seal weld on the other side of your fillet to avoid potential cracks, if it's not fully penetrated.

It's been ages since I've welded anything - I was pretty decent at it, but it was literally 25 years ago. Been watching a bit of aluminum welding videos, doesn't seem to difficult - but I don't have the equipment. I learned aluminum stick welding first I think, definitely not the easiest thing in the world, but probably best for welding old crusty bits of oil pans together.

[kristov]

How heavy is it compared to the stock pan?

[hoveringuy]

I'm making progress on the first "production" oil pan. It's 14Ga, I had it bent on on an industrial machine and it folded together like origami The is my first time behind a TIG welder and I told Gareth "If I can fly a helicopter, I can TIG", but now he wonders how I get off the ground?

My biggest issue at the moment is that I don't have the proper steel slab to keep it straight, so after several small passes to weld the pan to the flange, the flange has gotten slightly warped. I can still push it into position by hand but I'll be dropping it off to have that done.

[Bored]

My UK field office has confirmed receipt of a serviceable RHD master cylinder...

And here's a juicy engine bay shot:



A quote from hoveringuy Friday night: "We're not using the stock exhaust manifolds."

This has resulted in a very minor setback and redesign of the starboard side engine arm (something LukeJ bought up a while ago, but I insisted that since we weren't using cats I'd have plenty of room). There's several possibilities here, and I'll update when I know if anything will pan out.

That looks really comfy in there... and I agree with Nando, aftermarket would suit you better I've seen some nifty header building foam-lego things... and you could use an OEM flange and get it set up. Make sure it'll fit.

[nando]

"UK field office" lol. I've been looking at that Australian one on ebay, but they want like $120 for shipping. You should get a box of 3 of them shipped at once, I'll take one!

and yeah, the stock N52 manifolds are not that great. they're fine for emissions but I wouldn't want to put them in the E30. you can still run a cat in the center section, like the stock E30 was. there's also euro N52 manifolds which are better, but for used stuff and the cost, you're better off just getting aftermarket headers.

[hubcapboy]

My UK field office has confirmed receipt of a serviceable RHD master cylinder...



And here's a juicy engine bay shot:



A quote from hoveringuy Friday night: "We're not using the stock exhaust manifolds."

This has resulted in a very minor setback and redesign of the starboard side engine arm (something LukeJ bought up a while ago, but I insisted that since we weren't using cats I'd have plenty of room). There's several possibilities here, and I'll update when I know if anything will pan out.

[NC325iC]

i need to turn email notifications on... Just spent a few minutes catching up a bit. Loving the progress guys, my hat off to your engineering and fab skills. Please keep me in mind for any tubing you guys need, I want to help in any way I can. Laser cut tubing, mandrel bending, anything you guys need to help button up. Please let me know, dev costs on me.

[hoveringuy]

I think there's some comfort in the redundancy of multiple flaps, and I suspect that in static conditions they seep enough oil to keep everything equalized. Hot oil isn't very viscous so a few semi-circles at the bottom, or even just a small gap, should be plenty.

[hubcapboy]

An idea that I decided to abandon is reflected in this 2jz baffle:



And this Mazda rotary baffle:



Which is separating each quadrant of the pan with solid baffling to "require" the oil to flow through the pickup well before it goes somewhere else (so rather than washing around the well, it's forced to fill it). Once I started looking at the shape of our pan, our pickup is already in a corner. I'm thinking about lining my oil drain plug up with one of the flaps so I can poke it in to drain the pan more completely during an oil change.

(this is also a subtle attempt to fill this page with photos of pans with tons of flaps so I don't look crazy)

[hubcapboy]

HG: Yep. I'm completely throwing out the rear sump as a reference and basically copying the design of the m20 baffles from advanced auto fabrication, bimmerworld, and achilles. They all separate the port side and front side of the pan from a corner in the "starboard/aft" where the pickup sits. I honestly don't think I need a baffle at all, but it's useful to drop it in there while this is all apart. Do I need any of the overflow holes? I dunno. after playing with these flaps I have a feeling that once there's some hydrostatic pressure against them they're a very good seal. My fear would be that unless I have overflow holes, there's no way for the oil to really ever get to the "rest" of the sump, so why do we even have it... I could see the baffled area filling up and just backing up into the tray below the crank. I think these are a much better seal than any hinged metal flap.

N: I think one or two would be fine... I think one on each of the flat faces would probably be fine... but I bought more flaps than I'll ever use, the holes are free, and this makes me feel better about oil not getting trapped in weird parts of the pan outside of the baffle. Once I saw the flaps on one BMW design, I started looking at the flaps in general cases. Cosworth doesn't screw around when they put them in Subaru engines:



The approach seems to be "put a piece of metal where you want oil to go one direction and not the other, and if there's room for a flap put a flap in it."

[nando]

yeah, I agree - cap the end that goes to the booster, and leave it alone.

Do you need that many flaps? most of the stock BMW pans I've seen only have one or two. 5 seems kinda overkill. But I've also never fabricated my own oil pan, so..

[hoveringuy]

The only time I consistently saw my oil pressure light flicker was under heavy braking pointing downhill (on a rear sump pan).

I'm not sure you need any of the overflow holes?

[hubcapboy]

Recommendation from a reliable resource: Leave the wiper arm in, cap the pump, and don't worry about it. The pump won't know the difference between this state and normal operation. My observation from spinning the pump with one finger without a chain on the sprocket is that 90% of the drag comes from the bearing, 10% from the wiper arm, and my source assures me that once the pump has drawn down the vacuum, there's not any significant losses in the action of the pump (this isn't a a compressor which has to work hard to pressurize a container... once the vacuum is drawn down there's no additional work to do)

Plate arrived today to build the baffle and I couldn't stop myself from running out there to make one 90 deg bend:





The "near face" of the pan is lying on the skidplate below ready to go on when this is all worked out. There's a tray that needs a more precise bend that sits on top of this with an opening for the pickup to drop through.

I'd appreciate any input on whether this baffle design makes sense. effectively all engine oil is going to drain into the baffle area where it's captured by the flaps until it fills to the point of the overflow holes just below the tray. Whenever the oil level outside of the baffled area is lower than outside, it'll get refilled via the flaps.

I'm considering cutting every other "between piece" out between the overflow holes.

[hubcapboy]

i just realized there’s a pump on my mock-up engine...