yay or nay for carbon fiber

[nando]

http://www.mashaw.com/html/product_info_BMW.html

If I'm paying for a CF hood, I want a full CF hood. I don't like Accord bumper materials in my CF items.

My CF opinions have gotten me into some tight spots. I don't want any PM's from bitching MAShaw employees or owners like I got over at s14.net from another undisclosed component manufacturer.

it's full CF, unless they changed something in their hoods - mine is a single layer of CF, no composite core BS. it weighs about 10lbs.

[thull]

I have the MA Shaw hood with mixed opinions. On the upside, it is strong, high-quality, and came ready to paint. For a track car, it is perfect.

My only complaint is with the fitment. The front edge is cut about 3/8" shorter than the OE hood. This leaves a larger gap between the headlights, grilles, and kidneys. Also, the passenger fender edge doesn't line up at edge or surface. The driver's side is spot-on.

I bought Evo hood seals which disguises the misalignment and makes it tolerable.

Now I use hood pins to keep it in place, the factory hinge doesn't latch it evenly side-side.

I don't have any pics yet with the pins in, but it made it fit a lot better.

MA Shaw hood:
Front
Driver's Side
Passenger's Side

[kamotors]

Compitition Concepts FTMFW!!!!





That right there is how to make a CF hood. Keith is da man. It even gets the "Farbin Kaiber CF Seal of Approval" And its only +/-$350.00 from other "USA makers" units. I'll be paying the difference for a full CF unit. None of that fiberglass framework bullsh*t.



( There you go d00d )

how does it fit

[VAPORBLADE]

Where can you buy the CC hood? I looked and could not find anything. At 350 +/- I will buy one today.

[compcon]

cf hood

650 clams for what?....maybe a 20 pound drop? Not good economics. I would think that amount of money would go a long way to increasing the horsepower of the engine enough to offset the heaviness of your hood. Drop that cash on some lightweight wheels since 2 pounds per corner of unsprung weight is worth alot more than the 20lbs of sprung weight.

Personally I feel that carbon fiber has been reduced to automotive jewlery. A carbon fiber hood is not really a legitimate engineering application, it is an exercise in flamboyance. Sure it weighs less but its rigidity is useless in that application. Fiberglass would be a better choice. It would cost less and weigh almost as little. Now the tub of a Ferrari Enzo... That is a perfect use for CF. Its lightness and rigidity are perfect for the application. Just a hood? Thats just fashion.


The only legitimate application of it I can think of on a street or dual duty track car is maybe a race seat. Its strengths would be perfect for it. Everything else is just showing off.

Sorry, CF add ons are one of my pet peeves., but hese are just my opinions and disregard them as such ;)

/rant

The use of carbon fiber as a hood material is an excellent choice. The ridgidity of a hood is important because a flimsy hood will "buffett" at high speeds and cause airflow disturbance. The weight reduction is an advantage for a number of reasons.
1. It reduces the overall weight of the car. Lighter is faster
2. It brings the weight bias closer to 50/50
3. improved transition turning
4. lowers the weight above the roll center of the car
5. improved braking

I look at the use of carbon fiber as being for function only. The mod classes in BMW Clubracing are very competitive. All of the reasons listed are ligitimate concerns of a racer. You pretty much have to reduce the weight of your car to be out front. If you look at the weight reduction just for accelleration, 7lbs=1hp. I know this dosent seem like much but you need to look at it as a cumulative thing, reducing weight throughout the car. Our hood is 10lbs and is being used on many racecars with no fit or flexability issues. If made properly it is money well spent. If it is a part that is just for cosmetic purposes and is heavy it dosent make sense to me.

[Farbin Kaiber]

Where can you buy the CC hood? I looked and could not find anything. At 350 +/- I will buy one today.

It's +/- $350.00 on top of other "Retailer" prices. Sure, it's a thousand dollars, but the extra money shows on the product quality.

[Farbin Kaiber]

The use of carbon fiber as a hood material is an excellent choice...

Glad to see ya here, great first post.

[nando]

The use of carbon fiber as a hood material is an excellent choice. The ridgidity of a hood is important because a flimsy hood will "buffett" at high speeds and cause airflow disturbance. The weight reduction is an advantage for a number of reasons.
1. It reduces the overall weight of the car. Lighter is faster
2. It brings the weight bias closer to 50/50
3. improved transition turning
4. lowers the weight above the roll center of the car
5. improved braking

I look at the use of carbon fiber as being for function only. The mod classes in BMW Clubracing are very competitive. All of the reasons listed are ligitimate concerns of a racer. You pretty much have to reduce the weight of your car to be out front. If you look at the weight reduction just for accelleration, 7lbs=1hp. I know this dosent seem like much but you need to look at it as a cumulative thing, reducing weight throughout the car. Our hood is 10lbs and is being used on many racecars with no fit or flexability issues. If made properly it is money well spent. If it is a part that is just for cosmetic purposes and is heavy it dosent make sense to me.

agreed. I didn't expect to notice much difference with mine, but ~25-30lbs was pretty drastic. plus having it painted means I don't get attention from all the ricers, and raw CF is pretty ugly on anything but black/dark cars anyway. of course using the money I got from insurance to buy it helped too. ;)

[ditchdigger]

If it is a part that is just for cosmetic purposes and is heavy it dosent make sense to me.

That is the part that I have a problem with as well. CF is a fantastic "wonder material" but in a cost vs return situation Fiberglass (or if anyone made ABS hoods) wins out. When I built my 78 rabbit for autocross and took it all the way down to 1621lbs I avoided the $600 carbon fiber hoods that had extra reinforcments for hood hinges and the latch and weighed 9lbs. I took out the extra 3lbs of steel that was the hinges and latch and dropped on a $120 fiberglass hood and used 4 hood pins to secure it. The total weight for hood and pins was 6lbs. I came in 6.5 pounds under the CF setup and saved $480.

I come off as a cranky old guy CF hater because years of exposure to useless crap like CF shift knobs, CF gauge faces, CF intake manifold covers, CF dash face overlays, CF horn buttons, CF Dashboards, CF wheel centercaps have made me that way. It has turned it into fashion and I automatically assume when folks start asking about CF they are only wanting the look.

[thull]

Its just cloth and resin, same shit as fg or kevlar so why hate?

Yea the ricers took off with it but there are plenty of legit uses, including hoods, dashboards, aerodynamics, and any other part exposed to structural forces.

[SamE30e]

I shit out carbon fiber.. To bad my asshole isn't big enough for a hood.. Maybe a sunroof..

Man I want a CF Sunroof, trunk and hood.

[nando]

That is the part that I have a problem with as well. CF is a fantastic "wonder material" but in a cost vs return situation Fiberglass (or if anyone made ABS hoods) wins out. When I built my 78 rabbit for autocross and took it all the way down to 1621lbs I avoided the $600 carbon fiber hoods that had extra reinforcments for hood hinges and the latch and weighed 9lbs. I took out the extra 3lbs of steel that was the hinges and latch and dropped on a $120 fiberglass hood and used 4 hood pins to secure it. The total weight for hood and pins was 6lbs. I came in 6.5 pounds under the CF setup and saved $480.

I come off as a cranky old guy CF hater because years of exposure to useless crap like CF shift knobs, CF gauge faces, CF intake manifold covers, CF dash face overlays, CF horn buttons, CF Dashboards, CF wheel centercaps have made me that way. It has turned it into fashion and I automatically assume when folks start asking about CF they are only wanting the look.

fiberglass is cheaper for the weight savings but is far more flimsy than CF. I had a super light FG sunroof panel I could have put in - it even worked with the stock power mechanism. But for something that you want to look OE with a coat of paint over it, FG just doesn't hold up, and if it were a race peice I wouldn't want the working power mechanism either.

[Sean5294]

i had a vis hood on my civic hatch and loved it. no problem at all and a huge weight difference compared with the stock hood. i saw go for it.

[compcon]

competition concepts hood

Where can you buy the CC hood? I looked and could not find anything. At 350 +/- I will buy one today.

Call Competition Concepts at 518-693-7030 or contact me by e-mail-www.keith@competitionconcepts.com . I can be reached from 9 to 5 eastern. I generally dont answer the phone after 5 so I can focus on other things.

[soul rebel]

I wouldn't do it, but I'm not a huge fan of carbon fiber on e30s most of the time. Especially when the fit is garbage.