Attempting K9 Eclipse Alarm install (kudos stereoinstaller)

[StereoInstaller1]

I put a volt meter on the brown/black wire and got a constant 12v

I forgot to go check n see if my lights light up...


also, I read that alot of folks have been running a wire to the trunk and splicing into the door pins for simple alarm setups.. my alarm actually has the lil displa that'll tell me where the car has been fucked with so I might have to run the wire.... doin more research for ya reelz and i'll let you know.

When you metered that wire, was the light bulb in the circuit? Did you pull the switch out? If so the bulb will pass voltage, just looking for a ground.

If you pull the light out, you can see the wire is only about 3" long from the switch to the bulb. The switch sends a ground when the trunk opens (same as the doors and glovebox) so if the switch is not mounted (it gets its ground from the mount) it will read +12V through the lightbulb.

And still, once again, it is very clear...that switch CANNOT send any kind of signal anywhere. There is a wire from the fuse feeding the light, then a wire from the switch. It cannot be more simple.

As far as WHY an alarm triggers when you open the trunk, lots of alarms back in the old days had "current sensing" so when the alarm saw a tiny sudden voltage drop (like a light bulb turning on) the alarm would trigger.

This fell out of favor with the major manufacturers because it was fairly unreliable. Lots of false alarms, lots of failures in general, so they quit using that "feature"...but I have no clue about that brand of alarm. Might have it, might not.

I'm going to be 33 this year so you haven't been installing longer than I've been breathing. Anyway, let's get to the bottom of it.

Here's for the doorlocks, taken from the K9 installation manual:



I know it's hard to read but pay attention to the last sentence in particular. To be honest, I'm very surprised you didn't know this. (EDIT: of course I know this. I have rebuilt dozens of E30 door lock systems) Next you'll be telling me that E30's don't have that type of door lock system.

Okay, now the dome light circuit.

ETM's don't tell the whole story, just give a general schematic of what to expect. All door pin and trunk switches are tied to Fuse 21. There are splices here and there but it's unclear if the brown/violet wires ever connect. On paper, it doesn't appear so. I don't know what to make of it. What I do know is that I have 3 E30's with working trunk triggers. I will check which wire I tapped into in the morning. I think the original poster should tap into the brown/violet wire and see what happens with the trunk.

OK, first: Your point with the whole "E30s don't need relays" is kinda blown out of the water by showing a diagram that uses relays.

That is why his keyless started working after he connected the violet wire in one of his posts. That provided the relatively high current (about 1.2A) needed to trigger the E30 central locking system.

Another thing that is kind of unique to the E30 lock system is that there is no "switch", as is common in japanese cars of this (and later) eras. Instead, there is a "switch" built into the actuator.

How the system works is that there are 5 wires at the door lock actuator.

1 is ground, (brown) 2 are for the motor (blue and white) and 2 more for the central lock system. Those are the 2 (they change color in the door jam) that you tap into for the keyless function.

When you mechanically lock or unlock, the actuator sends a ground to the central locking module. It stays on ground, as is suggested in that diagram.


So, due to the fact that 99% of all alarms sold today have simple transistor outputs with a 500mA maximum current output, they simply cannot swing enough current to lock or unlock the E30 system consistiently.

Also, the transistor cannot switch if it sees voltage on the output, or at least not consistiently

The fact that Omega (or whoever makes that alarm) shows relays in the diagram kinda proves that, see?

BTW, WTF, where is that diagram from, is that a scan? I had to copy/paste to IE to see it at all...did you scan that, or was that from their website?

To me, who has spent hundreds of hours studying the ETM and applying it to repairing/modifying BMWs over the last couple dozen years, it is perfectly clear how and where things are...but I forget that is an "acquired taste"

[reelizmpro]

Alright, I just took a closer look at my M3 and there is a wire ran to the light. This is probably the case on all my E30's. They must have tapped between the trunk and the door switch circuit somewhere because I saw no additional wiring in the front kickpanel. So it looks like you guys were right about that. No need to be a dickhead about it.

That's what I was thinking... tap into trunklight circuit in the kickpanel somewhere and measure current in the existing wire. The Viper in my old 85 325e installed by my uncle was before 92 so it makes sense.

[e30slut]

I put a volt meter on the brown/black wire and got a constant 12v

I forgot to go check n see if my lights light up...


also, I read that alot of folks have been running a wire to the trunk and splicing into the door pins for simple alarm setups.. my alarm actually has the lil displa that'll tell me where the car has been fucked with so I might have to run the wire.... doin more research for ya reelz and i'll let you know.

[StereoInstaller1]

The "bottom of this" is simple.

Page 6320-0 of the ETM shows the wire from the trunk pin goes to the light, and that is all.

There is only 1 wire going into the trunk lid, and that is +12V.

Simple, isn't it?

[reelizmpro]

If your dome lights turn on when you open your boot lid (trunk), then the wiring has been screwed with, prob by a bodyshop in the past.

I know of three E30's in my group of family and friends from new and on all of them the boot lid (trunk) DO NOT light up the dome lights.

I have a 318IS and because it had a alarm (Hornet) fitted, the boot lid (trunk) lights up the dome lights. So I'm with Luke on this one.

By the way I'm am Old School audio installer here in Australia. (retired)

Thanks for posting. Possible but highly unlikely. 3 E30's? 1 from new that's never been to a bodyshop? I just want to get to the bottom of this. On my convertible the trunk switch does NOT light up the interior dome light BUT does activate the alarm if opened. There is NO wiring ran to the back on any of my cars just splices. All OEM wires. Interesting isn't it? I've had my 85 325 since new and just spoke with my uncle. He says no, there's already a trunk pin, just splice into at the harness under the kickpanel. lol I don't know what to tell you guys. Did you test the trunk after install? or just ran a wire anyway?

[GANSTA]

If your dome lights turn on when you open your boot lid (trunk), then the wiring has been screwed with, prob by a bodyshop in the past.

I know of three E30's in my group of family and friends from new and on all of them the boot lid (trunk) DO NOT light up the dome lights.

I have a 318IS and because it had a alarm (Hornet) fitted, the boot lid (trunk) lights up the dome lights. So I'm with Luke on this one.

By the way I'm am Old School audio installer here in Australia. (retired)

[reelizmpro]

I'm going to be 33 this year so you haven't been installing longer than I've been breathing. Anyway, let's get to the bottom of it.

Here's for the doorlocks, taken from the K9 installation manual:



I know it's hard to read but pay attention to the last sentence in particular. To be honest, I'm very surprised you didn't know this. Next you'll be telling me that E30's don't have that type of door lock system.

Okay, now the dome light circuit.

ETM's don't tell the whole story, just give a general schematic of what to expect. All door pin and trunk switches are tied to Fuse 21. There are splices here and there but it's unclear if the brown/violet wires ever connect. On paper, it doesn't appear so. I don't know what to make of it. What I do know is that I have 3 E30's with working trunk triggers. I will check which wire I tapped into in the morning. I think the original poster should tap into the brown/violet wire and see what happens with the trunk.

[StereoInstaller1]

I have news for you...it would have worked anyway. I'll say it again, I have a K9 Mundial 3 and 2 Viper 300's without onboard relays hooked directly to the central locking triggers (not the high powered wires to actuators). Works flawless. If it didn't, I wouldn't be posting...but we're past that now.

There's a wire in the kick panel that will trigger the alarm when the trunk opens. No need to run a wire at all but if it makes you feel better...

Before you do, think about this logically. Each door has a door pin including the trunk, right? When you open the trunk, all of the interior lights turn on (yes, I checked again to be sure). Then, does it make sense to run a wire specifically for the trunk? No because you already have a wire running to the trunk. All these switches activate the same circuit...interior lights. It's simple. Instead of monitoring the door switches and running a wire to the trunk, you just have to tap into that circuit (in the kickpanel). Doesn't matter which door (left/right/trunk) is opened the circuit is hot and that will be your door trigger. Basically your trunk is a door.

Yes, the trunk pin is wired in conjunction with the door pins.

EDIT: 3 of my E30's (85 325e, 88 M3, 91 325iC) are like this. Yours may or may not be the same but I imagine they are. On my M3, the trunk turns on the interior lights and alarm. On my iC the trunk did not activate my interior light but did activate the alarm.

Fine. The ETM and the guy who has been installing longer that you have been breathing are both wrong.

Good luck, fucko.

Luke

[e30slut]

thanks again reelizmpro..

guy sent me some more info.. cool cat

btw man your m3 and vert are gorgeous! if you know anything about turbos help me with my 325is aka poor mans M3

[reelizmpro]

lol got damn luke! tearin ass up OG style..

I have to have mad respect for stereoinstaller, he's the og of r3vs audio/electrical department.

but It does have onboard relays... not only can you hear them click, but I went to the guy that installed the alarm on my truck and he said this would be the easiest alarm to install as it has onboard relays for everything except starter interrupt...

I might do a write up but it wont really help those who dont have the same alarm.

as for the trunk pin, theres no way the alarm is gonna go off if hooked to the dome light. unless the trunk pin is wired in conjuction with the door pins...

i'll start running a wire to the trunk later. off to take pics of my install.. gotta clean it up first cuz damn is it shitty..

thanks again luke and reelizmpro

I have news for you...it would have worked anyway. I'll say it again, I have a K9 Mundial 3 and 2 Viper 300's without onboard relays hooked directly to the central locking triggers (not the high powered wires to actuators). Works flawless. If it didn't, I wouldn't be posting...but we're past that now.

There's a wire in the kick panel that will trigger the alarm when the trunk opens. No need to run a wire at all but if it makes you feel better...

Before you do, think about this logically. Each door has a door pin including the trunk, right? When you open the trunk, all of the interior lights turn on (yes, I checked again to be sure). Then, does it make sense to run a wire specifically for the trunk? No because you already have a wire running to the trunk. All these switches activate the same circuit...interior lights. It's simple. Instead of monitoring the door switches and running a wire to the trunk, you just have to tap into that circuit (in the kickpanel). Doesn't matter which door (left/right/trunk) is opened the circuit is hot and that will be your door trigger. Basically your trunk is a door.

Yes, the trunk pin is wired in conjunction with the door pins.

EDIT: 3 of my E30's (85 325e, 88 M3, 91 325iC) are like this. Yours may or may not be the same but I imagine they are. On my M3, the trunk turns on the interior lights and alarm. On my iC the trunk did not activate my interior light but did activate the alarm.

BTW: look at the diagram in the link in the first post. Door lock trigger - Brown / Purple - at Dome Delay Relay.

[e30slut]

lol got damn luke! tearin ass up OG style..

I have to have mad respect for stereoinstaller, he's the og of r3vs audio/electrical department.

but It does have onboard relays... not only can you hear them click, but I went to the guy that installed the alarm on my truck and he said this would be the easiest alarm to install as it has onboard relays for everything except starter interrupt...

I might do a write up but it wont really help those who dont have the same alarm.

as for the trunk pin, theres no way the alarm is gonna go off if hooked to the dome light. unless the trunk pin is wired in conjuction with the door pins...

i'll start running a wire to the trunk later. off to take pics of my install.. gotta clean it up first cuz damn is it shitty..

thanks again luke and reelizmpro

[reelizmpro]

I'm not trying to argue. Look, the pulse is very small, that's all it takes to pull the relay in the central control unit but you should know this. Now if you only follow manuals and wire in external relays bypassing the unit...that's fine. It'll work and may even be more reliable but it's not necessary on E30's with central locking. Granted, I'm not an installer by trade (I'm a BSEE) but I've owned several E30's for almost 20 years. I've done alarms and stereos in all my cars. Grew up in my uncle's shop and just installed a K9 from the same company 3 weeks ago. Everything works flawlessly. Now my question to you is have you actually tried it? or are you just following manuals? I ask because manuals will often say relays are required for the E30 but it's just not true. The e30 doesn't have a typical push button PDL system but it does indeed have power door locks. I've tried it and it worked every time for years. Kinda hard to argue with success, yet you're pretty adamant about trying.

How about this...K9 Mundial 3/2 Viper 300s in 3 different E30's, NO BUILT IN or added relays, spliced into the lock/unlock wires of the central locking unit. Works flawlessly for years, this is proven fact. How? ...I explained it.

[StereoInstaller1]

I dunno, both of my alarms on my E30's go off when the trunk is open and no wiring was ran nor were any pins installed on the trunk. Also, the alarm doesn't have on board relays for the doorlocks the central locking unit has them built in. Think about it. You turn the key, the microswitch sends a pulse to the control unit and it activates the relays that open or close the lock. This is a power door lock system. All the alarm does is tap into that system and supply a ground pulse. No extra relays required.

Once again, you are talking out your ass.

Pay attention here, you don't seem to be getting it. THE FUCKING WIRE HAS VOLTAGE ON IT! NORMAL ALARMS WILL NOT TOLERATE THIS.

The ONLY reason it works is that there are INTERNAL relays in that fucking alarm...understand?

Yes, there are relays in the factory system. MOST alarms WILL NOT run this fucking circuit...how many fucking E30s do you think I have done? You have done 1, you uncle has done maybe 10...I have done literally HUNDREDS, with DOZENS of different alarms.

AND, once again, if you alarm goes off when you open YOUR trunk, con-fucking-gradulations. There is NO connection to the fucking domelight circuit.

Quit spreading misinformation. If you are wrong, man the fuck up and shut the fuck up. In the meantime, I assure you, I am correct in this.

If you have an old fashioned pile of shit alarm that has "current sensing" triggers, it will work. All reputable alarms got away from that shit in 1992 or so...oh yeah, back when I had only been installing 12 years...or long before you were driving...get it?

[reelizmpro]

I dunno, both of my alarms on my E30's go off when the trunk is open and no wiring was ran nor were any pins installed on the trunk. Also, the alarm doesn't have on board relays for the doorlocks the central locking unit has them built in. Think about it. You turn the key, the microswitch sends a pulse to the control unit and it activates the relays that open or close the lock. This is a power door lock system. All the alarm does is tap into that system and supply a ground pulse. No extra relays required.

[StereoInstaller1]

Use the dome light wire behind the drivers side speaker as the door trigger. This covers all doors as well as the trunk.

Wrong. Barry, please get your facts straight before you post.

I hate getting 200 PMs asking me "WHY didn't I say blah blah blah" so that is why I always jump on incorrect wiring posts so hard.

It does NOT cover the trunk. To catch the trunk pin, you need to run a wire to the trunk. No E30 has a trunk trigger wire anywhere except in the trunk lid itself, unless it was added at some point. Your Hofco install might have had it done so you would not have known, but very few installs get a trunk pin.

Most installers are too fucking lazy. Ask your Uncle, he has almost as much time in the business as me!

BTW, where does your Uncle work? I know a ton of guys in LA. I was there in the early/mid 80's, back and forth from there to SD.

Back to the OP:

Good to know that the alarm you have has built in relays, or no workie doorlocks. E30s MUST have relays on the doorlocks, either internal or external, but no normal circuit can run the BMW relays, as the central lock system rests on positive or ground, depending on status. They work for a few weeks, sometimes a year, but they ALWAYS shit the bed.

You must use relays. Very few alarms these days have built in...you got lucky.

And...making he horn honk is likely gonna be pretty tough. You have to either hack a wire after the fusebox, or inside the fusebox, as it doesn't work with the key off.

I did mine in the fusebox, but it isn't for the electrical newb.

Luke