Ok i need some sound system advice (paging Luke)

[iamsam]

UPDATE 2009-12-01: Subwoofer/amp installed, I have questions on how to set all the amp controls, see pg 2


Hey guys so i just replaced the POS Pyle speakers in my E30 with 5.25 Pioneers. Not the best speakers, but i got all four for $32 brand new.

So anyway, my brother just shipped some more of my audio crap that i had in MD that I never used, and now i intend to use it.

The problem is, i know next to nothing about audio systems.

So here is what i got: an 8" subwoofer and two amps. The amps came out of my previous car, one is bad that was hooked up to the sub, so hence i never used the sub, and the other was wired to all the speakers, and worked. (this was the PO's system).

So what I want to do in somehow install the 8" in my E30 with the amp that works.

My questions run thus:
What is the best box setup for my sub?
Does the box have to be sealed, or is this an "open air" sub that i can just bolt into a round hole?
And finally, how do I wire this in? (in the most basic sense, i can figure it out mostly)

Most of all, all you audio gurus chime in and tell me what I have and anything I need to know.

Here is what I have:

[ejnight]

If the four channel is working. Use it to run the whole system. front speaker from amp rear from deck. Sub bridged on rear of amp. A Luke box and rock on.

[iamsam]

If the four channel is working. Use it to run the whole system. front speaker from amp rear from deck. Sub bridged on rear of amp. A Luke box and rock on.

ok i think the 4 channel one is the one that works, because it must have been the one powering all the speakers in my previous car, while the smaller amp didn't work, and thus the subs didn't work.

To amp the front speakers, do i have to run wires from the head unit to the amp and then from the amp to the speakers?

and by bridging do you mean hooking the sub up to two channels on the amp?

sorry i really am a complete n00b at this. My main concern is getting the sub mounting system right, and then teaching myself about the wiring.

[quickervicar]

To amp the front speakers, do i have to run wires from the head unit to the amp and then from the amp to the speakers?

Yes.

and by bridging do you mean hooking the sub up to two channels on the amp?

Yes.

Another option instead of running the rears off the head unit you can run them off the 4-ch amp & just turn the Gain down on the rears to even out the sound F-R.

[abepark]

nice amp. I got the same pc450 and I'm very satisfied. The guy running his pc 450 did what other said. Run fronts off of amp and bridge the rears for the sub and run rear speakers off of deck.

[StereoInstaller1]

You want to use both of those amps.

Get your gear tested, as you are gonna wanna use the 2 channel to run a sub, and that 4 channel to run the mids and highs.

Do you have a deck?

And yeah, a single 10 in one of my boxes, those 2 amps, a decent deck and 4 speakers and you will be happy forever.

[iamsam]

Another option instead of running the rears off the head unit you can run them off the 4-ch amp & just turn the Gain down on the rears to even out the sound F-R.

and the benefit for running the rear speakers off the amp is that its just easier to run wires, right?

And what is Gain?

You want to use both of those amps.

Get your gear tested, as you are gonna wanna use the 2 channel to run a sub, and that 4 channel to run the mids and highs.

Do you have a deck?

And yeah, a single 10 in one of my boxes, those 2 amps, a decent deck and 4 speakers and you will be happy forever.

both amps would be ideal, but i think the smaller amp does not work, and i am not sure if it can be fixed. (can it?)

I do have a CD deck, its a Kenwood. And my sub is an 8" not a 10", do you make an 8" box?

[Serious Sam]

These are the specs for your sub pulled from Infinit's website.
You have an Infinite Baffle, which should work well in your car.
Do a search for infinite baffle firing through ski hole.
Or you could probably mount the sub under the rear deck (making sure to avoid the trunklid spring rods. Secure it well. Deaden the rear deck, and your in business.

Also, dont worry about rear fill unless YOU ABSOLUTELY GOTTA HAVE IT.
There are literally 100 instances on this forum that talk about the adverse effects of rear fill in e30's. I am one that has expereinced it.

Run the fronts off 2 CH, and use the other 2 CH's to bridge on you sub (as mentioned above). this should give you pretty good sound.

Are the pioneers coaxs?
If they are super cheap (blue cones), they sound terrible, IMO. I had the same. Absolutely no midbass, with thin mids, and screaching highs. They suck. Return them, and get some used components for a few more bucks, and you'll be happier.

Running stock HU? No, I see. Run RCA's to amp. from HU.

SPECIFICATIONS
General
Drivers 8" woofer, infinite baffle
Power Handling, RMS 175 watts per channel
Sensitivity 93dB (2.83 volts/1 meter)
Frequency Response 40 - 1.5KHz
Mounting Depth 3.75"

[iamsam]

These are the specs for your sub pulled from Infinit's website.
You have an Infinite Baffle, which should work well in your car.
Do a search for infinite baffle firing through ski hole.
Or you could probably mount the sub under the rear deck (making sure to avoid the trunklid spring rods. Secure it well. Deaden the rear deck, and your in business.

Also, dont worry about rear fill unless YOU ABSOLUTELY GOTTA HAVE IT.
There are literally 100 instances on this forum that talk about the adverse effects of rear fill in e30's. I am one that has expereinced it.

Run the fronts off 2 CH, and use the other 2 CH's to bridge on you sub (as mentioned above). this should give you pretty good sound.

Are the pioneers coaxs?
If they are super cheap (blue cones), they sound terrible, IMO. I had the same. Absolutely no midbass, with thin mids, and screaching highs. They suck. Return them, and get some used components for a few more bucks, and you'll be happier.

Running stock HU? No, I see. Run RCA's to amp. from HU.

SPECIFICATIONS
General
Drivers 8" woofer, infinite baffle
Power Handling, RMS 175 watts per channel
Sensitivity 93dB (2.83 volts/1 meter)
Frequency Response 40 - 1.5KHz
Mounting Depth 3.75"

ok in all my n00bidity i must ask a few more questions: isn't my sub an Infinity Kappa? and when i mount the sub in the ski hole or rear deck, do i need a box, or do i just bolt it in boxless? (note: it was professionally installed in my other car by the PO without a box, firing through the ski hole). and by "rear fill" do you mean amping the rear speakers?

they are Pioneer coaxials, they are grey (not blue) but they don't have an ounce of bass. When i get more money eventually i will replace them with Infinity Reference speakers (which i keep reading are really good), but for now they will work, as i am on a serious budget. (so far i have spent $92 on the whole system). And what are RCA's?

So what i am getting is pretty much i will wire the front 2 speakers into 2 channels of the amp and the sub into the other two channels.

[StereoInstaller1]

IMo, a single 8" in infinite baffle is worth spending maybe $10 to get up and running...with the issue that poor old Kappa is like 1992 or so (maybe newer, really does not matter) and while it is a great woofer, even sitting in a box it has degraded significantly.

Personally, considering the time/hassle that it would be to install it and the fact that there is basically nothing like it to replace it on the market today, I would not spend any time building something cool based on it...likely, it is not gonna last.

The PC450 is a great amp, as is the PC250. The whole reason I told you to get it tested is that 99% of the fools out there who "know a lot about stereos" basically know dick.

IF you had both amps to work with, it would potentially sound better.

What Sam said about rear fill is only partially true. You need to make sure the rear has about 5X the "loud" that the front has, and this generally works out pretty well. The real goal is adjustability, so having the 4 channel just for mids/highs would be a good idea.

[iamsam]

IMo, a single 8" in infinite baffle is worth spending maybe $10 to get up and running...with the issue that poor old Kappa is like 1992 or so (maybe newer, really does not matter) and while it is a great woofer, even sitting in a box it has degraded significantly.

Personally, considering the time/hassle that it would be to install it and the fact that there is basically nothing like it to replace it on the market today, I would not spend any time building something cool based on it...likely, it is not gonna last.

The PC450 is a great amp, as is the PC250. The whole reason I told you to get it tested is that 99% of the fools out there who "know a lot about stereos" basically know dick.

IF you had both amps to work with, it would potentially sound better.

What Sam said about rear fill is only partially true. You need to make sure the rear has about 5X the "loud" that the front has, and this generally works out pretty well. The real goal is adjustability, so having the 4 channel just for mids/highs would be a good idea.

ok i may as well get the amps both tested, the reason i say that the small (2 channel) amp doesn't works is because when it was hooked up in my other car, the sub just "popped" at a steady rate no matter what music was playing, and the power light on the amp flashed as the sub popped, and the guy at Best Buy said the amp was bad.

So since this sub is old and i am on a budget, i guess the consensus (read: Luke's opinion/law) is to not bother with a box, so i will just get a piece of pressure board (or whatever that's called), cut a hole in it to bolt the sub into, and bolt the board to the back of the seat in the trunk to have the sub firing through the ski hole, and have the 4-channel amp powering the sub and front speakers (if the 2-channel is shot).

yay? nay?

[iamsam]

You need to make sure the rear has about 5X the "loud" that the front has, and this generally works out pretty well. The real goal is adjustability, so having the 4 channel just for mids/highs would be a good idea.

why do the rear speakers need to have 5 times the "loud" as the front? i thought it was the other way around? right now it sounds like all the sound is coming from the rear as it is...

[AndrewBird]

I'm pretty sure that's what he meant, just said it backwards.

Oh, and take the amp to somewhere other than Best Buy. Those guys rarely know what they are taking about. Try a local car audio place. or better yet, send Precision a message and see how much it would be to have it looked at:

http://www.precisionpower.com/contact/contact.htm

[Serious Sam]

If you feel that you cant upgrade via Lukes recommendation, then what you mentioned might work in the meantime and give you a chance to raise some funds and get something better.
One of Lukes Boxes with a new 10" sub (ask his recommendation for whcih sub) will perform SOOO much better that the IB 8".

DEfinately get that amp looked at, cause it opens up some options if it does work.

I say dont go rear fill, cause SO few people have the ability to correctly run 40w to the rear and 200w to the front. Rear fill can work exceptionally well (some early SQ cars executed this well) but is very difficult to setup, and usually works best when very high volumes are sought and its harder to tell speaker locations.
It also frees up funds for better fronts. You'll appreciate a nice set of components up front only than 2 sets of coaxs front and rear.

[Serious Sam]

I should not have corralated 5x w as being 5x the loudness. It was a poor example as it takes ALOT more watts (everything else equal) to increase loudness 5x.