Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

CD43 Head Unit & Audio Amp Fundamentals - A Primer [LONG]

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

    CD43 Head Unit & Audio Amp Fundamentals - A Primer [LONG]

    [I]Last Edit: 7/13/2010 9:10PM - Corrected some technical errors & added clarification regarding the bridge tied load & differential signals.

    Since the CD43 head unit is a hot topic, and there seems to be a lot of confusion about what it can & cannot do, I took the time to get some answers. I too was confused by the wide variety of information about it, so I will share my observations. Some of this is actually pertinent to all head units / amplification electronics as well.

    Depending on who you ask:
    1 - The unit has unbalanced or balanced signals
    2 - These can or cannot be used to drive speakers directly
    3 - It will overheat if used to drive speakers
    4 - The amp's output stages are special pre-amp stages
    5 - The CD43 has superior SQ to most other HUs
    6 - You can or cannot run the outputs to pre-amp inputs


    The reality is:
    1 - Outputs are "pseudo-balanced." Technically, it is known as a Bridge-Tied Load setup. They carry a common-mode voltage of ~0.5*Vsupply, and the - output terminal is inverted relative to the + terminal. It is not a true balanced setup because there is no dedicated neutral line that they are referenced against, and it turns out that they possess poor asymmetry (see extra stuff at the end).
    Here is the CD43 being bench tested. The scope is measuring CH1+ & CH1- on the two traces. The supply voltage is 13.0V and I am running a CD with a 1000Hz test tone. It is well suited for use with input devices that use a differential input, but under no circumstances should one of them be connected to an input where the - terminal goes to ground. In the case of a differential input, whatever is receiving this will be amplifying the DIFFERENCE between the two signals, not their absolute value (notice that it is offset by +6.4V...you wouldn't want to amplify DC). This offset is necessary since the negative half of signals won't exist on a 0-14V system. Think of it as a signal that would otherwise be -6.5V to +6.5V, but shifted up +6.5V so it occupies a 0-13V range.



    2 - You absolutely CAN run speakers directly from the head unit. See section 3 for concerns in this respect. The outputs come from two ST Microelectronics TDA7376B audio amplifier IC's. They are completely standard 2-channel amp ICs with the same poopy performance of the amp ICs found in every other semi-modern head unit. They are rated to put out a maximum of 40W per channel, but by the time you hit 24W the total harmonic distortion is already 10% if you are running at 14.4V.
    The datasheet is here, if you are interested:



    3 - There may be some truth to the overheating part. The amp chips are mounted to a small copper plate with NO thermal grease. That is a pretty sub-par setup for thermal management. I added some grease since I have access to good stuff in the labs at work. Since I worked as a thermal engineer, I am pretty anal about this stuff. You can see a little bit of the grease I added squeezing out in this pic...the chips should be a bit happier now.



    4 - The output stages are nothing special. In fact, the TDA7376B is less powerful than many newer amp ICs. Most newer HUs use the TDA7386 which is a 4-channel amplifier that puts out marginally more power with the same exact distortion behavior. Pioneer, among others, uses this chip but relabels it with their own PN.

    Here is the performance of the ethereal CD43 head unit lol. Truly, if you are going to run speakers from it, you had better not run more than ~10W. The spike in distortion is due to signal clipping...you just cannot run much power into a 4 Ohm load with a supply voltage of 14.4V. The lower your battery voltage, the less power you can run without clipping.

    Dedicated amplifiers can supply a lot more power without clipping because they have internal power supplies (switching boost converters) that typically have power rails at +/-22V (typical of 50-60W channels @ 4 Ohms) to 55V (250W channel @ 4 Ohms).


    5 - Sound quality...you should have figured this out by now. The CD43 is just another head unit.


    6 - You might be able to run the outputs to pre-amp inputs. It really depends on the hardware. As long as you don't turn the CD43 up high enough to cause clipping in an amp's input stages you should be fine. If the inputs' - terminals are connected to ground, do NOT connect a signal line to them or you will blow the CD43 amp chip. You would end up just leaving one of the outputs floating & ground the - input. This is sub-par though since there is NO noise rejection. You really want to run these to a device that has a differential input so that any noise induced into the lines (in common) gets rejected. You'll probably get nasty alternator & ignition noise if you don't.


    Conclusions:
    So the CD43 is nothing special (in terms of the output, it is slightly inferior to some newer HUs). It is probably so pricey because it says BMW on it and nothing more. I don't regret dropping $300 on it because I want a stock head unit that can play CDs. Options are limited in this regard, especially with an E30. As with any head unit, it really is best to run it with external amplification. When you run the HU outputs to one, VERY little power is dissipated so you stay on the nice low portion of the THD plot above. Hopefully nobody will get mad at me for bashing it, or think that I am calling them dumb for buying it. I bought it too, so I am certainly no smarter than you!

    Don't take this as some sort of reason to avoid the CD43. Truly, it performs exactly the same as every other HU in most practical respects. You should run it with an amplifier, just like all others. The internal amplifier sucks just as much as the one found in other HUs. Basically, if you want a nice stock radio that can play CDs and supports a changer/iBus, go for the CD43. I have no regrets.

    Someone mail me a Nakamichi HU, I want to see if they are the same as everyone else (I bet they are). I won't hurt it lol.




    Extra Notes: Somewhat Interesting, Likely Confusing
    A lot of amplifier user's manuals tell you to turn the HU volume to ~75% when tuning the amp gain. There is a very good reason for this, which has to do with the following information.

    The ground level is the ticked horizontal line with the green "2" & ground symbol pointing to it. The differential voltage (difference between yellow & green) is in the lower-right in the box with the deltaY(1)=X.XXXV.

    Low-volume differential outputs (13V supply):


    Turning the volume up a little...


    More volume...


    Onset of clipping...right around ~75% of maximum (I was counting clicks on the volume knob). Keep in mind that the CD source had a 0dB test signal on it which basically has the highest audio level you can get on a CD.


    Up ONE click from the previous shot. Clipping a lot more.


    And the volume is maxed out. Ever wonder why it sounds like ass when you turn it up all the way? Well, the CD is playing a SINE signal, but the output looks like a digital data line lol. You would need to be running ~22V in the car to make it look right.



    If you read this before, there was the section about the offset between the BTL outputs. It turns out that the huge offset was due to the way I had the oscilloscope set up...the actual offset is ~100mV (spec sheet says it can be up to 125mV), and that is not a big deal. 125mV into a 4-Ohm load is only ~16mW (0.016W). So, forget about anything you read previously. The offset is fine.


    Hopefully this was interesting. Cheers.
    Last edited by bmwman91; 07-13-2010, 09:11 PM.

    Transaction Feedback: LINK

    #2
    Dude! Brilliant! Finally, analysis of the famed CD43.

    Did you, by chance, load this using the little hack I stole from ADS, Fosgate, Orion, PPI and others? We all seem to think that using chassis ground as the "negative" drops output voltage...I have always wanted to know way more of the truth of that...why even stock amped E32/34/36 systems generally sound SO much better when you use chassis ground as the input ground for the amp?

    Closing SOON!
    "LAST CHANCE FOR G.A.S." DEAL IS ON NOW

    Luke AT germanaudiospecialties DOT com or text 425-761-6450, or for quickest answers, call me at the shop 360-669-0398

    Thanks for 10 years of fun!

    Comment


      #3
      Good write up. I was hoping that someone could shed some light on these decks.

      Are there any audio differences between the CD43 and the C43?

      I wanted a tape deck in mine to look even more retro but I'll be using a Phatbox mp3 player for my music.

      Nürburgring info

      Comment


        #4
        They sound the same to me. The C34 is certainly cheap and is just as reliable, so why not?

        Closing SOON!
        "LAST CHANCE FOR G.A.S." DEAL IS ON NOW

        Luke AT germanaudiospecialties DOT com or text 425-761-6450, or for quickest answers, call me at the shop 360-669-0398

        Thanks for 10 years of fun!

        Comment


          #5
          Nice job!
          Mtech1 v8 build thread - https://www.r3vlimited.com/board/sho...d.php?t=413205



          OEM v8 manual chip or dme - https://www.r3vlimited.com/board/sho....php?p=4938827

          Comment


            #6
            Originally posted by StereoInstaller1 View Post
            Dude! Brilliant! Finally, analysis of the famed CD43.

            Did you, by chance, load this using the little hack I stole from ADS, Fosgate, Orion, PPI and others? We all seem to think that using chassis ground as the "negative" drops output voltage...I have always wanted to know way more of the truth of that...why even stock amped E32/34/36 systems generally sound SO much better when you use chassis ground as the input ground for the amp?
            What was the "hack" recommending a chassis ground connection to...the amp's power ground (pin 15), or the 4 "negative" output lines? I would definitely recommend against connecting the "-" outputs to ground because they are putting out a fully powered signal. Connecting those to ground would be a short circuit.

            In E32/34/36 cars, how is the head unit grounded stock, and what do you typically change to improve it?

            Originally posted by Dirtboy View Post
            Good write up. I was hoping that someone could shed some light on these decks.

            Are there any audio differences between the CD43 and the C43?

            I wanted a tape deck in mine to look even more retro but I'll be using a Phatbox mp3 player for my music.
            If the C43 was produced at the same time as the CD43, then it probably has the same amplifier ICs. Of the few decks I have taken apart over the years, they all seem to use STMicro am ICs, and even looking at what is available on DigiKey I would estimate that there are no more than 5 different ones in use today lol.

            Transaction Feedback: LINK

            Comment


              #7
              Very thorough bmwman91. Thanks!
              http://bbswheels.blogspot.com

              Comment


                #8
                Nice wright up.

                Thanks for the great info.

                John
                The Revolution will not be televised.

                Comment


                  #9
                  Hello all,

                  I will also try to make an install with a CD43 soon on my Touring, and I was wondering one thing..
                  First please note that I am French and my technical english may not be understandable to you native speakers...

                  For the details I will use the following :
                  HU : BMW-Blaupunkt CD43
                  AMP : Alpine PMX-F640, not avail in US, but basically 4-channel amp, has Speaker wires input, RCA input & output , can give 4x50Wrms
                  Front Speaker : Pioneer TS-C520PRS- 2x30Wrms, 2x150W max.
                  SUB & SUB Amp : not defined yet
                  Processor/Eq : Not defined yet

                  So BMWMAN91, when it come to wire RCA plugs from the CD43 Output ? Shall I :

                  1/ weld the Speaker out "+" on the RCA plug center core and the "-" on the outer core ?

                  2/ Either weld the Speaker out "+" on the RCA plug center core OR the "-" on the outer core ? The unused one to the car ground ?

                  3/ Use a line driver with speaker wires input and RCA output ?

                  4/ Use a Linear output Converter with speaker wires input and RCA output ?

                  Also I see you use the 6XS, why this choice ? care to elaborate on the 6XS ??

                  Your help much appreciated.

                  Cheer Pierre
                  Last edited by pegase747; 05-25-2010, 06:59 AM.
                  1988 E30 ALPINA B3 2.7 #224/257 Made in Buchloe

                  see more : http://www.r3vlimited.com/board/showthread.php?t=71686&referrerid=12460

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Pierre, you will use the speaker + to the center pin of the RCA, and then use chassis ground on the outer shield.

                    Do not use the speaker - from the deck at all.

                    Audiocontrol 6XS is an amazing crossover/signal processor. It has up to 6 channels of input and several output options. It has a subwoofer controller, too.

                    Closing SOON!
                    "LAST CHANCE FOR G.A.S." DEAL IS ON NOW

                    Luke AT germanaudiospecialties DOT com or text 425-761-6450, or for quickest answers, call me at the shop 360-669-0398

                    Thanks for 10 years of fun!

                    Comment


                      #11
                      So at what point or setup would it be beneficial to run AudioControl's LC6i? Is there an advantage to running the outputs from the CD43 into this prior sending the signal onto the 6xs?

                      If not, do they sell "pig tail" type RCA cables that allow you to neatly splice the + speaker output onto the RCA cable? Where nd what would you ground the shield to ( i.e near the HU or closer to the 6xs; ground to clean bare metal or a negative lead from the battery.) I am a total newb when it comes to doing this and I appreciate the constructive feedback.

                      Comment


                        #12
                        The advantage of the LC6i would be in signal noise reduction. If you run the wires from the HU to the trunk there is a lot of room to pick up noise. If you just run one of the outputs to the 6XS, the noise stays with the signal & goes all the way through the amplification system & to the speakers. The LC6i can accept a differential type input (inputs are not ground-referenced like they are in the 6XS). If the two lines (CHx+ & CHx-) are very close to each other, preferably twisted together, then the same noise will be present in both lines and in the same polarity. Remember that the important part of a differential signal is not the value of one or the other, but the difference. Basically, the noise is canceled out since it is the same in both lines.

                        Then you can put the LC6i 3" from the 6XS & only have that much ground-referenced / unbalanced signal line in the system. If I have noise issues I will add an LC6i. However, I don't really foresee that happening.

                        You can get DIY RCA plugs all over the place. Some are crimp type, some are solder type and some are both.

                        Transaction Feedback: LINK

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Again I apologize for the hardheadedness; so tell me if I understand this correctly:

                          So using the LC6i, you would route both CHx+ & CHx- from the HU to the trunk and into the LC6i. The LC6i would help "clean" up the signal from any noise that was picked from the HU to the trunk. You would then just use regular RCA connectors between the LC6i,6xs, and amplifier of choice?

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Yup, that's how you would do it.

                            Transaction Feedback: LINK

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Originally posted by StereoInstaller1 View Post
                              Pierre, you will use the speaker + to the center pin of the RCA, and then use chassis ground on the outer shield.

                              Do not use the speaker - from the deck at all.
                              Thanks Luke,

                              Do I need to do that when only connecting the CD43 straight to my AMP ? I dont plan to use LC6i or 6XS just now...

                              Please let me know.

                              Cheers Pierre
                              1988 E30 ALPINA B3 2.7 #224/257 Made in Buchloe

                              see more : http://www.r3vlimited.com/board/showthread.php?t=71686&referrerid=12460

                              Comment

                              Working...
                              X