Wire joins: solder vs. butt connector

[Gregs///M]

Not trying to be disrespectful or anything Luke. I'm sure with your experience you crimp one hell of a connection that will last plenty of years. However, you seem very against the use of solder in the car environment, which is weird to me. Even going so far to say that you would not warranty a soldered connection.

I too was an installer for 8+years in the San Francisco Bay Area. My grandfather used to own a speaker and amp manufacturing facility since 1949 so I too am legacy in the automotive world. I've been soldering since I was a child so realistically my experience is more close to 20+ years but I only list my actual professional experience.

Additionally, you should realize that many BMW owners, including e30 owners are also professional technicians, installers, and engineers. Everyday I work with engineers with literally 50+ years experience (old guys near retirement) and they laugh at anyone who talks about crimping connections.

So its safe to say that I've worked on thousands of cars and installed thousands of alarms and components. I've only had to repair a handful of solder connections throughout my career but had to repair hundreds of crimped connections. These repairs are all repairs from other shops, so with that said. It seems to me, statistically, with an average installer, a soldered connection will outlast crimped connections.

I have soldered wires in many vintage and classic cars and never once had a problem soldering wires that are corroded. A good solder joint requires prep work in cleaning and preparing for the wires to have soldered applied by used of cleaning and additional flux. Besides, you don't solder heavily corroded wires, you replace them.

Now with a heavily experienced installer such as yourself and myself, we can go crimped or soldered and it will outlast the life of the car itself.

[bimmerteck]

1. Both methods can attain an acceptable lasting connection given the proper tools, supplies, and technique.

2. Many individuals lack the proper supplies/skills/care to do either correctly hence many failed connections of both types out in the field.

3. Poly solder sleeves or crimps with poly shrink and adhesive should always be used in exterior automotive applications to both seal the repair from corrosion and provide strain relief.


I'm perfectly happy to offer up my labscope skills to any damaged/defective connections either of you want to send me for analysis and will post up the results. Other than that the arguing is kind of pointless. To anyone else wanting to submit failed crimp/solder joints for testing please leave 1" on either side of the connector for me to connect the test leads. PM me for address info.

[homegrone30]

This thread just got real!

[German Audio Specialties]

Not trying to be disrespectful or anything Luke.

and none taken at all, thanks.

Now with a heavily experienced installer such as yourself and myself, we can go crimped or soldered and it will outlast the life of the car itself.

Exactly. It is the hacks I worry about. I think we all agree that soldering is a bit of an art, as is crimping (to a much less degree) making it far easier to master, thus my stance on the topic.

Luke

[nando]

you guys have any pics of a properly soldered splice? I have a pretty good idea of what it's supposed to look like, but I'm not a pro. I don't really like soldering spliced joints though, it's too easy to end up with a really thick/stiff joint, especially if you can't get heatshrink over it and have to use tape. I don't like but splices either. actually, I prefer to just run a whole new wire..

I've been soldering since I was about 8. I "fixed" my old radioshack RC truck (added more batteries for extended range). I also broke it by trying to figure out how the radio worked. hehehe.

[kronus]

For stranded wire, I typically mesh the two together end-to-end and twist, then flow solder into the joint. It will be stiff, that's unavoidable, but it's usually no bigger externally than the insulation diameter and the twist locks the wires together pretty well.

Use marine heatshrink, also, not the regular stuff. It releases epoxy when it shrinks, sealing the connection and providing some stress relief for the joint.

[DaveSmed]

Also, I was always taught to have a strong mechanical connection BEFORE you flow the solder, twist the wires together tightly and enough times that they are difficult to pull apart. THEN solder them for a proper joint.

On another note:
I was working on a big european piece of equipment today, and instead of tinning the ends of the wire where they terminate in a terminal block, they have these nifty crimp on shields that encapsulate the strands in a thin metal tube. I didn't have any of the Starfix ends handy so I tinned the ones I was working on. :-o

[nando]

that's a really neat crimping tool!

[bimmerteck]

you guys have any pics of a properly soldered splice? I have a pretty good idea of what it's supposed to look like, but I'm not a pro. I don't really like soldering spliced joints though, it's too easy to end up with a really thick/stiff joint, especially if you can't get heatshrink over it and have to use tape. I don't like but splices either. actually, I prefer to just run a whole new wire..

I've been soldering since I was about 8. I "fixed" my old radioshack RC truck (added more batteries for extended range). I also broke it by trying to figure out how the radio worked. hehehe.

solder sleeves simplify the process
1. slide sleeve over stripped and cleaned wire to be soldered
2. twist wire strands together
3. slide sleeve over connection and heat evenly to 800 degrees with a heat gun.

solder melts, heat shrink shrinks, and adhesive binds and seals the connection for weather resistance and strain relief.


with the heat shrink removed it should look something like below.

[Gregs///M]

solder sleeves simplify the process
1. slide sleeve over stripped and cleaned wire to be soldered
2. twist wire strands together
3. slide sleeve over connection and heat evenly to 800 degrees with a heat gun.

solder melts, heat shrink shrinks, and adhesive binds and seals the connection for weather resistance and strain relief.


with the heat shrink removed it should look something like below.

I don't know if these will flow thoroughly into the wire. I would be afraid of these only flowing on the outside of the two twisted wires.

Also, heating the insulation to 800 degree's seems quite a lot. I would prefer to solder the traditional way and using heat shrink with epoxy lining.

[nando]

those are neat!

I'm thinking you'd only want to use them on smaller wires (where the wire would get penetrated enough by the heat).

[bimmerteck]

I don't know if these will flow thoroughly into the wire. I would be afraid of these only flowing on the outside of the two twisted wires.

Also, heating the insulation to 800 degree's seems quite a lot. I would prefer to solder the traditional way and using heat shrink with epoxy lining.

They are engineered very specifically for those temps and as they seal they hydraulically force the liquid solder into the wires. ;)

They are borrowed from the aeronautical industry and are approved by both NASA and the FAA you will not find them on the shelf at your local Wal-Mart.

NASA solder sleeve inspection data


Crimp/solder butt connector inspection data

[Gregs///M]

They are engineered very specifically for those temps and as they seal they hydraulically force the liquid solder into the wires. ;)

They are borrowed from the aeronautical industry and are approved by both NASA and the FAA you will not find them on the shelf at your local Wal-Mart.

NASA solder sleeve inspection data

That's a great link but I would only use those for wires with insulation rated to higher than 800 degrees. Many wires, including some auto wires, would melt the insulation around the splice.

Cool link tho.

[bimmerteck]

The only wires I've seen it damage,(on the back of a Jensen radio) would be damaged by any of the poly clear view heat shrink repairs and have no place being installed installed in my cars anyway.

I ONLY use clear poly heat shrink in cars b/c it allows for inspection for corrosion and moisture intrustion without dis-assembly, subsequent re-soldering, and re-shrinking.


They are also only heated by a jet of hot air, no open flames, no physical contact by a soldering iron.

[Gregs///M]

Here's some scans from training material that I've gone through.

I prefer to use Wrap Splice.