Dual Fuel VE Tables are they really beneficial?

[i_build]

Been running 2 fuel tables and was revisiting my tune. Using both tables and VEAL sometimes I get some really odd VE values as it transitions from where 1 table ends and the other begins. Not only that... it is more difficult to tune of course if not just because there are more values to be concerned about.

I see that it seems like most people are using 1 VE table. I picked this up because this is where I started from and I have been carrying it over.

Overall the question is whether it makes sense for me to continue using 2 tables? I know there is increased resolution but do we really need it?

[i_build]

I guess fewer people run 2 VE tables in MS than I originally thought.

[BMWManiac]

I would love the resolution...how do you run 2 x fuel tables?

[ccsdo5]

I would love the resolution...how do you run 2 x fuel tables?

In tuner studio you need to go to the Boost/ Advance tab, then click table switch control. You can switch VE table a few different ways, either a hardware switch which I've never played with, RPM and KPA(map sensor).

I have my car running with 2 ve tables switching with the map sensor value. I currently have an off boost table 30-100 kpa and an on boost table 100-170kpa. You need to over lay the tables you are switching between, because otherwise you'll be at value on table1 until you hit the starting value on table2. So if table1 ends at 100kpa and table2 doesn't start until 120kpa you'll be using the cells on table1 100kpa for that 101-119kpa range which is obviously bad.

In my opinion having the two tables works out better for me since I was able to get my car to idle better with the offboost table (not running an ICV so it was kinda tricky getting it to idle steady)

[nando]

You don't have to run table switching. you can also run 2 concurrent tables at once. just offset the load or RPM axis (so they don't overlap) and set it to "additive". I've set mine up like that for years now.

[i_build]

Running mine as Nando said.

Decided to stick with it for a while.

[nando]

I actually went back to one table at some point,but with many iterations of ve analyze i realized the single table didnt have the resolution neccesary to create the curve shapes required for my engine.

Theres no drawback, and i went back to dual again for the above reasons.

[BMWManiac]

I see no downside to having multiple tables if the transition is seamless....I would love to have as many rows/columns as possible to fine tune certain RPMs that seem to have a slightly rough transition.

Nando, do you have a screen shot of what you're talking about? I think I saw an example where someone had their last column in their first table and first column in their second table "zeroed out".....is this what you're talking about or just have one table end at 3500 and your next table start at 3600 as an example?

[nando]

yeah that was me. but you probably don't need to do that. I think you just need to make sure no RPM column overlaps. it's completely seamless, because the tables are always added together in memory.

[BMWManiac]

So how do I go about doing this?

Table Switching
Fuel table switching "on"
Switch source "RPM"

Spark table switching "off" - I don't need to turn this on as well, correct? I can just let the table switching happen with RPM, correct?

Do I have to "burn" before it will give me access to VE table 2?

[BMWManiac]

Also, how do you feel about MS2's Tune Analyze Live? Its only $60 to upgrade, but I feel like my tables are close to perfect and the car responds well....is it worth it at this point? I'm no expert tuner, but my street tune feels good.

I need to install my new otisfold on this m20 and get it to the dyno before I go that route as well.

[nando]

I'm not using table switching. I have the second table enabled as "additive" to the 1st table. There's no other settings to change. you can also set the second table to "multiply" but this won't give you the result you want. It works on the VE and the ignition tables.

I used VE analyze a lot back in the day. Haven't touched it in a few years, but I'd say it's worth it if you are tuning a lot.

[BMWManiac]

My Fuel VE Table 2 isn't highlighted.....do I need to be connected to the car in order to do so? If not, how do I make it active to enable it and make changes?

[nando]

I can't remember where it is, but you don't have to be connected to the car. I think it's under the basic VE settings.