Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Creating a FI base map from ecu stock maps - MS41

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

    Creating a FI base map from ecu stock maps - MS41

    Background:

    The E36 M52/S52 DME is Siemens MS41.
    Euro M52 runs software 41.0, NA M52 runs 41.1, S52 runs MS41.2.
    All but early 41.0 units are tunable via reflash.
    Preferred method:
    Add OBD2 port or "BMW 20 pin ADS adapter"
    Enable write access
    INPA K+DCAN Cable
    MS41 Quickflash read/write tool
    Romraider+MS41 ECU Definitions for editing.

    I'm assuming people have a running engine with any necessary deletes done.

    Answers to my original questions:

    Scaling injector pulse width for larger injectors
    Take injector flow rates and multiply them OLD RATE / NEW RATE.
    Example: Stock Pink Top 21.5lb converting to Bosch 52lb EV14s would be 21.5/52 = 0.4135 as a multiplier for all maps that have fuel(ms) as a value.
    Don't forget to update deadtimes and minimum PW.

    Extending injector pulse width tables and extending table data for additional load/RPM columns and rows.
    This answer is a bit more complex.
    1. MAF will need to be updated to something with more range, preferably that works in blow-thru.
    2. MAF Scalar will need to be updated to suit the new MAF, but to avoid overflow in the software, the entire table needs to be divided by 2.
    3. All tables with "Load" as an axis or table value need to be divided by 2 as well. This doesn't include any tables that use percentages. Remember that from now on, all values are half of what the true load is. Mostly this only affects comparisons between different ECUs/cars.
    4. Use Excel or similar to graph your fuel map as Load vs Injector pulse width and generate a curve fit with a linear equation.
    5. Use this equation to generate any Load column values you desire. Recommend leaving first two columns alone for idle, and to leave one column more than you think you need as an overboost protection,

    Quantity of fuel to add when adding forced induction to an NA engine's maps.
    The main Fuel map is supposed to be stoichiometric, so don't add fuel to this map during this conversion.
    This is handled by the Open Loop Detection and Open Loop Enrichment (OLE) tables.
    Open Loop Detection decides when to add extra fuel, based on RPM and TPS%.
    Stock values are quite high. Leave them alone below Boost Threshold RPM, drop them to 25-35% above boost threshold. Datalog to refine the percentage. If you find you hit OLE while cruising on the highway, bump the percentage. If you find you're able to spool with the car not triggering OLE, decrease the percentage at that RPM.
    Open Loop Enrichment decides how much extra fuel to add. Most people are familiar with AFR but Lambda makes this easier to do.
    Look at a lambda to AFR conversion chart and see that 11.8 AFR for Gasoline is ~0.8 Lambda, ie. 20% extra fuel.
    Maybe you want it richer/leaner, but use whichever value you decide on for the OLE table from boost threshold onward.

    Extending ignition timing tables for additional load/rpm columns and rows. / How much timing to pull from an NA tune for a FI base tune
    This will be the same axis as the fuel table. Rescale as best you can from stock.
    Basically leave the timing alone for any stock value, as it's off-boost. Keep in mind what you did to half the load before.
    On-boost, taper the ign timing down to 10 degrees at peak boost.
    Tune based on dyno/knock feedback. Knock control is very aggressive on MS41.
    If it consistently pulls timing in a cell or creates stored knock correction values it's a good sign there's knock (or other engine issue/noise) but an inconsistent -1.5 degree correction isn't worrying.



    Original Post:


    I'm currently attempting to make a base map for my M52 turbo from the stock MS41.2 maps. I have increased the load axis for all the timing/spark maps from 700mg/stk to 1200(at least until I get close to this amount) and my RPM axis from 6500 to 7k by deleting every second value until I had room for the increased range. I then moved the tables over to realign the table values with their axes, but that leaves me with large gaps of increased load/rpm without defined pulsewidth/timing values.


    So, does anyone have any recommendations or links to anything specifically related to:

    Scaling injector pulse width for larger injectors (without a universal modifier like reqfuel in MS)

    Extending injector pulse width tables and extending table data for additional load/RPM columns and rows.

    Quantity of fuel to add when adding forced induction to an NA engine's maps.

    Extending ignition timing tables for additional load/rpm columns and rows.

    How much timing to pull from an NA tune for a FI base tune?

    I've searched a lot of this on google, but all results are either: for guessing without having any tables to start with, or MS, which isn't mg/stroke, kg/hr, pulse width and has req fuel and other tools to make it easy (plus base tunes widely shared on the internet)
    Last edited by Northern; 04-25-2023, 10:33 AM.
    Originally posted by priapism
    My girl don't know shit, but she bakes a mean cupcake.
    Originally posted by shameson
    Usually it's best not to know how much money you have into your e30

    #2
    I understand your idea but can I ask why? There would be much of the NA map that would never work for an FI engine.

    Turbo M42 Build Thread :Here
    Ig:ryno_pzk
    I like the tuna here.
    Originally posted by lambo
    Buttchug. The official poster child of r3v.

    Comment


      #3
      I feel like part throttle before boost should be nearly identical, and it seems better than blindly guessing based on load/rpm/displacement like all the calculators seem to want to do. If I can just extend my fuel tables to continue how they seem to trend, then convert for 60lb injectors and then each cell by a percentage to account for anticipated boost at that cell, hopefully it's good enough to get the car started and begin tuning?

      If you have another suggestion, I'm all ears. I don't know how to do this from what I have available, and I'm just assuming it's easier this way than t start from nothing
      Originally posted by priapism
      My girl don't know shit, but she bakes a mean cupcake.
      Originally posted by shameson
      Usually it's best not to know how much money you have into your e30

      Comment


        #4
        well first off there is no way to interpolate a stock tune into MS. but even if you could there are several reason why it wouldn't work 1st being the application and required fuel. Because you have 60lb injectors and a different KPA threshold it wouldn't be correct anyways

        What problems are you having that you can't fix? A better question would be where are you in the tuning process? Have you attempted to start the engine ? Does it run?

        Turbo M42 Build Thread :Here
        Ig:ryno_pzk
        I like the tuna here.
        Originally posted by lambo
        Buttchug. The official poster child of r3v.

        Comment


          #5
          I wasn't very clear, I'm running the stock Siemens MS41 ecu, hence no req fuel and the weird units, kg/hr mg/stk, pulse width values instead of VE and stuff.

          I'm trying to make a base tune to start and road tune the car. The car ran last year on the map I'm starting from before the turbo gear was added. I have not attempted to start the engine yet. Halfway through wideband/gauges install, then I'll give it a shot.
          Originally posted by priapism
          My girl don't know shit, but she bakes a mean cupcake.
          Originally posted by shameson
          Usually it's best not to know how much money you have into your e30

          Comment


            #6
            I think I have the fueling and table extension stuff sorted, but I'm still looking at how much timing to pull. One friend from the DSM world says to pull 2deg at peak, and the internet says 1 degree per psi, which sounds dumb, but ends up being 10deg (so way more than 2)
            Originally posted by priapism
            My girl don't know shit, but she bakes a mean cupcake.
            Originally posted by shameson
            Usually it's best not to know how much money you have into your e30

            Comment


              #7
              `
              Last edited by Northern; 11-01-2016, 10:55 AM.
              Originally posted by priapism
              My girl don't know shit, but she bakes a mean cupcake.
              Originally posted by shameson
              Usually it's best not to know how much money you have into your e30

              Comment

              Working...
              X