MS on 24 swapped e30?

[ForcedFirebird]

VEMS now has PNP for the Motronic 1.3, but if you are local, can help you setup to tune yourself, or can tune it for you. We are located in Pompano Beach (Broward county). As nando said, starting with a stock ECU is generally easier since it's already tuned for a stock engine. I used a 413 to Alpha-N my ITB m50 e36, runs/drives/starts like stock until the beautiful noises come from the intake horns.

[nando]

There's nothing wrong with a Megsquirt - you would want Megasquirt 3 at least though, as it supports full sequential fuel and ignition. Anything else would be a downgrade from the stock computer.

Megasquirt is pretty easy to tune, and there's years of support and lots of precedence in the E30 community.

I'm assuming he's not a professional race team so putting it down because they don't use it in Formula 1 is just hyperbole.

That said you should consider getting the OBD2 computer tuned, because any standalone at all is going to be far more work to get it running smoothly than the stock computer. You're not just tuning for a WOT pull on the dyno - there are drivability issues that take time to sort out and it can drive you a little insane after a while. All that stuff is done on the stock computer so you can just focus on performance.

[haaken675]

Yes, you missed something.

If you have time to read, and ~$50 to spend on program/cable, you can flash the stock OBD2 ecu.

People are making >1000whp on it, your high compression stroker would be more than fine.

Because I don't want this to be another "My way is the only way!" I'll list some pro's and con's (or Stock pros vs Standalone pros)

Stock ECU Pros:
Magnitudes cheaper
Comes with all calibration data for all sensors
Once tuned can run "Like stock"
Wiring is easy, just leave or trim whatever you want out of the harness. Only need to wire anything in if you want to log them through the ECU instead of separately.

Stock ECU Cons:
Not designed to be "tuned" the way we want, so:
Cannot live edit - need to turn car off to flash.
Injector PW based fuel map. Not as intuitive or as simple to modify.
"Stuck" with some sort of MAF (Not a big deal, but there are a few downsides).
Significantly fewer people willing or capable of tuning.


Standalone Pros:
Built to be tuned. (Significantly more intuitive, fewer modifiers that affect what the ECU does, means adjustments are more straightforward)
Whatever management method you want (Alpha N, Speed Density, MAF)
Can edit data live.
Can do additional things (depending on ECU) like flat foot shifting, Electronic boost control, various other things through extra i/o.
Way fewer problems finding a local tuner.
Easier to make changes to setup or hardware in the future.

Standalone Cons:
Expensive (and you get what you pay for, especially for support, reliability, and function)
More wiring intensive
May not run as refined as a stock ECU, typically many tables omitted for simplicity (refer to the fewer modifiers comment above)


I don't want this to sound like I'm shitting on the standalone option, it's just that MS41 is pretty damn capable as long as you have time to read/learn, and don't have any wild requirements.

Thanks for the info, its nice top know you can tune the stock OBD2 ecu now. I have had several bimmers, but it has been years since I have had one now and when I was last into the scene you couldn't really tune the stock ecu's.

[Northern]

unless I missed something, you can't just tap into the ob2 ecu from my home pc can I?

Yes, you missed something.

If you have time to read, and ~$50 to spend on program/cable, you can flash the stock OBD2 ecu.

People are making >1000whp on it, your high compression stroker would be more than fine.

Because I don't want this to be another "My way is the only way!" I'll list some pro's and con's (or Stock pros vs Standalone pros)

Stock ECU Pros:
Magnitudes cheaper
Comes with all calibration data for all sensors
Once tuned can run "Like stock"
Wiring is easy, just leave or trim whatever you want out of the harness. Only need to wire anything in if you want to log them through the ECU instead of separately.

Stock ECU Cons:
Not designed to be "tuned" the way we want, so:
Cannot live edit - need to turn car off to flash.
Injector PW based fuel map. Not as intuitive or as simple to modify.
"Stuck" with some sort of MAF (Not a big deal, but there are a few downsides).
Significantly fewer people willing or capable of tuning.


Standalone Pros:
Built to be tuned. (Significantly more intuitive, fewer modifiers that affect what the ECU does, means adjustments are more straightforward)
Whatever management method you want (Alpha N, Speed Density, MAF)
Can edit data live.
Can do additional things (depending on ECU) like flat foot shifting, Electronic boost control, various other things through extra i/o.
Way fewer problems finding a local tuner.
Easier to make changes to setup or hardware in the future.

Standalone Cons:
Expensive (and you get what you pay for, especially for support, reliability, and function)
More wiring intensive
May not run as refined as a stock ECU, typically many tables omitted for simplicity (refer to the fewer modifiers comment above)


I don't want this to sound like I'm shitting on the standalone option, it's just that MS41 is pretty damn capable as long as you have time to read/learn, and don't have any wild requirements.

[haaken675]

I here plug n play, and what my brain really tells me is "you can't fuck this up thinking your some kind of genius..."

I will do some more homework on some of these. I do like the idea of simply plugging in a unit and doing some minor tweaking maybe before actually tuning. With my tie going the way it is at the moment, plug and play would be a good thing.

[berlow94]

I definitely understand spending more when it is warranted. Is there something one of then other standalones will do for me that I would really want that MS3 with the MSx expansion board doesn't do?

VE fueling.
6d ignition mapping
Factory sensor compatibility
Precision closed loop Vanos control
Reliable closed loop knock control
Individual cylinder trim
Many different cold start strategies
Overrun fuel cut
A company you can actually call if you have a problem.

Read this: http://www.aceperformancesystems.com...able-blending/



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[haaken675]

Yep. What berlow said. And reading between his lines, he is telling you to spend the money up front if you're going standalone. Even if the current build is inexpensive. It will be worth it later.

I am getting into mine as soon as we get settled into our new house in November, so good luck to you with yours.


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I definitely understand spending more when it is warranted. Is there something one of then other standalones will do for me that I would really want that MS3 with the MSx expansion board doesn't do?

[dereliiict]

Yep. What berlow said. And reading between his lines, he is telling you to spend the money up front if you're going standalone. Even if the current build is inexpensive. It will be worth it later.

I am getting into mine as soon as we get settled into our new house in November, so good luck to you with yours.


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[haaken675]

There is no really good way to tune a factory ecu for a performance motor like that. Factory ECU's hardware is optimized for fuel efficiency and emissions. Only a standalone will allow you to fully unlock what a motor is capable of AND do it in a safe matter that won't destroy expensive shiny parts. The other plus to a standalone is that unless you get a PnP (and even then) you can use that ecu for anything from a N/A v12 to a turbo L4. You only pay once!


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And that's exactly why I'm looking at standalones!

[berlow94]

Nope, no relation. I have seen some of his posts and videos as well. Again, I want to be able to tune the ecu, not just get the car running on factory mapping. Again, I'm planning on running higher compression, high lift cams, long tubes, etc. A factory chip isn't really going to get me where I want to go.



I haven't decided on a motor yet as I am planning so I don't have to buy twice. What I have been considering is doing a high comp (11-11.5) non vanos motor for simplicity sake with some cat cams (275/268) or potentially a vanos motor with a similar profile cam. Someone please correct me if I am wrong, but there isn't a really good way to tune a factory ecu for this type of setup right?

There is no really good way to tune a factory ecu for a performance motor like that. Factory ECU's hardware is optimized for fuel efficiency and emissions. Only a standalone will allow you to fully unlock what a motor is capable of AND do it in a safe matter that won't destroy expensive shiny parts. The other plus to a standalone is that unless you get a PnP (and even then) you can use that ecu for anything from a N/A v12 to a turbo L4. You only pay once!


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[haaken675]

http://www.aceperformancesystems.com...0-plug-in-ecu/

PM me and I'll put you in touch with my tuner. I'm using this ecu with my fully blueprinted S52 race motor. He knows these things inside and out.



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I will do some research on this one. I have never heard of this company. If it really is plug and play, it is similar in price to what it looks like an MS3 unit is going to run me with all of the features I think I would want.

[haaken675]

So, you haven't stated what engine you will be using, but all you need for an m50 stroker build using m54 rotating assy is a red label 413 ecu with a green label 503 chip. Or buy a chip from turner.

Look up hakentt on YouTube. He basically outlines this clearly.

Odd about the user names...hopefully not related.


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Nope, no relation. I have seen some of his posts and videos as well. Again, I want to be able to tune the ecu, not just get the car running on factory mapping. Again, I'm planning on running higher compression, high lift cams, long tubes, etc. A factory chip isn't really going to get me where I want to go.

I haven't decided on a motor yet as I am planning so I don't have to buy twice. What I have been considering is doing a high comp (11-11.5) non vanos motor for simplicity sake with some cat cams (275/268) or potentially a vanos motor with a similar profile cam. Someone please correct me if I am wrong, but there isn't a really good way to tune a factory ecu for this type of setup right?

[dereliiict]

So, you haven't stated what engine you will be using, but all you need for an m50 stroker build using m54 rotating assy is a red label 413 ecu with a green label 503 chip. Or buy a chip from turner.

Look up hakentt on YouTube. He basically outlines this clearly.

Odd about the user names...hopefully not related.


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[berlow94]

Link to the link? :D

http://www.aceperformancesystems.com/link-g4-bmw-e36-s50-m50-plug-in-ecu/

PM me and I'll put you in touch with my tuner. I'm using this ecu with my fully blueprinted S52 race motor. He knows these things inside and out.



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[2mAn]

Link now makes a PnP unit that retails for $1.2k and plugs right into an e36 obd1 engine harness.

Link to the link? :D