ETA Turbo Help.

[bigredguy]

I know this may quite possibly the most hated build to do, but I plan on turboing my ETA motor. I have done as much research as I could and since it is not a common build it was hard to gather information. As far as turbos go, I am quite the beginner so I came here to try and gather the last few bits of the build I will need.

What I have gathered so far is that I will definitely need to replace the head gasket and head studs. Also I will be intercooling it right away because the 885 head swap is most likely in the future, but I will double the price of the build, so for now I will just be turboing the ETA.

As far as a parts list here is what I have gathered:
-T3 turbo
-524td manifold (any other suggestions for a manifold on a budget?)
-Wastegate, if not internally wastegated (suggestions on size and brand?)
-Ebay BOV.
-Ebay intercooler and piping
-Oil lines
-ARP head studs
-New head gasket(suggestions?)

So that is what I have gathered so far that I will be using. I also know I will need engine management, and gauges, which is where I have some questions.

What engine management would be ideal for a setup like this on the ETA? I will be running 7-8psi. I have heard standalone, like megasquirt is good, but are there any arguments, or other suggestions?

Also what about injectors? This is where the search came up kinda opinionated because some people say the ETA injectors are already good enough for low boost, while other say upgrade them. From what I have gathered they already have 19# injectors, so if I did upgrade them what would someone suggest? 24#? Even higher?

Also as far as the clutch, I have heard split opinions on this. I am hoping to run around 180-200hp and the car is a daily so would an upgraded clutch be recommended? I have heard it is not 100% necessary but it will wear alot faster and if I am going to have the car apart to build it why not do it all in one shot. Also what all should be done? Clutch? Flywheel? And are there and specific things that you would recommend?

Now gauges. What gauges should I go with? Electronics is my weak spot as far any part of a car goes, so this is what I have the least knowledge of. I know obviously a boost gauge, but any temp gauges, or any other gauges at all that are recommended? And some models that are decent?

A tune. What is recommended here? I have been told a dyno tune would be the best way to go for reliability and longevity, and it can also be tuned to the type of driving I do, but are there any other possibilities like a chip or anything of the sort?

That is so far all I have come up with from the one or 2 turbo ETA builds I have found. They definitely are not a common build, which makes this difficult, especially for a beginner, but I am in college so it has to be a budget build and I am very eager to learn more. Also the car only has 113k original miles on it, so a swap is not in my plans for anytime soon.

If I am leaving anything out please feel free to comment and let me know or if you have any suggestions I will greatly appreciate them.

[TheTacoMan]

Go to the junk yard and get a "i" head, the cost to swap versus the headaches with management system associated with the e are worth it alone.
Also its not all that expensive to swap heads, turboing an e motor with an e head is just stupid.
If you are trying to save money by not doing the swap, then a turbo build that is reliable will come with a 2-3k price.

[bigredguy]

Go to the junk yard and get a "i" head, the cost to swap versus the headaches with management system associated with the e are worth it alone.
Also its not all that expensive to swap heads, turboing an e motor with an e head is just stupid.
If you are trying to save money by not doing the swap, then a turbo build that is reliable will come with a 2-3k price.

I completely beg to differ. First of all I wouldnt get a junkyard 885 head, I would buy one from Myster-e performance which would already be completely redone. Secondly, with the 885 head I would never in a million years be looking at anything near 200hp without all new internals. Building a N/A motor from 150hp-200hp will require much more money than turboing my current ETA. I have looked it up and people have spent as little as 700 dollars on a turbo setup using 524td manifolds, rebuilt cummins (I believe) turbos, with ebay intercooler, piping, and BOV. The most expensive part of the build will be the tuning and engine management.

I didnt think I had to flat out say this, but I am not looking for people to tell me to do something completely different. I am looking for helpful information about going FI on my ETA motor. Yes, it may not be as popular as the 885 head swap and turbo, but I am only looking for 180-200hp which is 100% reasonable of a t3 turbo setup on an ETA running 6-8psi.

I am simply asking for assistance piecing together a good kit that will work well for a reliable DD. The car has 113k original miles and all of its maintenance was completed and is up to date as far as 3k miles ago. I want to go with a less common build that will still have the balls to be quicker than an e36 m3, which I know this setup would be capable of, I am just asking for assistance with some specific parts.

[TheTacoMan]

To give you an idea of stock eta motor hp wise to the wheels 76kw=102hp.
It peaks at 4k and quickly dies. The idea of using a diesel turbo is fine, it just they are on the bigger side for 2.7 m20s. Your power band or rpm range of boost would be small compared to the 2.7i. Its feasible to have a fast 200hp turbo car but having power through out the rpm range is key to being faster than say a holset on a stock eta motor. I know you want something different, but to me its just waste of time IMO. If you had a super eta, you could just throw the "i" head after the turbo with out too many issues to sort out. With older "e" you would have to get a managment system with the older style ecu then if down the road you wanted to "i" swap you would have to get another management system. At-least that's my understanding, correct me if im wrong.
Heres my dyno, its not the most accurate but it gives you an idea of the power and torque curve. Stock I head still falls on its face after 5kish but not nearly as bad as the eta head does. A Bimmer head is on my list of things to get, but as for right now the car is very fast. The usable power with a stock "i" head vs a e head is a no brainer to me.


Im sure someone will come in and say Im wrong on some aspects(which is probably right). But please dont do the eta head when m20 parts are so dirt cheap.

[kistler#7]

Basically starting with an eta is an uphill battle.
You're definitely going to want an 885 head and supporting intake manifold and tb, unless you run a small turbo (which will yield<250 crank hp) its not going to build boost until near the eta's redline.

With the 885 head and intake you're also going to need a motronic 173 ecu from the i to let it rev and the 55 pin harness that hooks up to it.

From there you can either get a turbo chip, fmu and bigger injectors or go megasquirt.
With megasquirt you will need the crank position sensor and 60-2 sensor wheel from the i, a throttle postition sensor, intake air temperature sensor, MAP sensor, and with either option you will need a wideband o2 for tuning.
I think that about covers it for management. As you can see there's a lot of i parts to swap to make things compatible whichever route you go

[ak-]

Turboing your E is fine if that's what you want to do.
eBay has internally gated manifolds for the e30 that have been on 3 successful projects on here; CXracing makes them.
Being internally wastegated saves you some money.
If you choose not to be internally WGated, please by a quality WG. I've had 2 eBay ones fail on me before I learned my lesson and bought a tial. Overboost from a bad gate can kill your motor in seconds if gone unnoticed.

Make sure to buy an appropriate sized turbo that your motor can push.
24# injectors are fine for your 200hp goals, but 36# mustang injectors are just as popular and nothing's wrong with having extra room.

Boost and air fuel ratio would be the critical gauges to get; those are what saved me when my wastegate diaphragm ruptured.
Oil temp would be nice so you know when you can beat on your car I suppose.
You have a dummy light for oil pressure.

[bigredguy]

Turboing your E is fine if that's what you want to do.
eBay has internally gated manifolds for the e30 that have been on 3 successful projects on here; CXracing makes them.
Being internally wastegated saves you some money.
If you choose not to be internally WGated, please by a quality WG. I've had 2 eBay ones fail on me before I learned my lesson and bought a tial. Overboost from a bad gate can kill your motor in seconds if gone unnoticed.

Make sure to buy an appropriate sized turbo that your motor can push.
24# injectors are fine for your 200hp goals, but 36# mustang injectors are just as popular and nothing's wrong with having extra room.

Boost and air fuel ratio would be the critical gauges to get; those are what saved me when my wastegate diaphragm ruptured.
Oil temp would be nice so you know when you can beat on your car I suppose.
You have a dummy light for oil pressure.

Thanks alot, alot of helpful info. As far as the internally wasgated manifolds, isnt it the turbo that is internally wastegated? Sorry if the questions are dumb, but like I said I am new to this and since I couldnt find many builds about this, or any descriptive ones I posted here.

Also as far as a properly sized turbo goes I was planning on running a T3. Correct me if I am wrong, but a T3 turbo can come in a few different sizes, or is that when people swap out T4 parts onto T3 turbos to make them a T3/4 hybrid?

I will definitely look into the 36# injectors as well. Do you have any suggestions as for what management to run? I would like something that would be as simple as possible, but also be best for the application and a DD. Megasquirt seems to be the most popular standalone, but do you have any other suggestions to this?

[Peattie]

Looks like you have a lot of research to do. A t3 turbo is the flange size. A t3 turbo can come in multiple sizes. A non wastegate manifold is just a manifold that doesn't have a place to mount a wastegate. The cxracing one is cheap but may need some work to fit right. Search around. Do your homework before putting together a kit. An 885 head is the best way to turbo a car since the eta motors only rev to 5k. Do whatever you want, but make sure you know what your doing before hand.

[Northern]

If you aren't changing out the head, and there's nothing wrong with the headgasket, swap the head bolts for arps and leave it alone. If you eventually get an 885 head, then you may want to oring the block (depending on your goals) with the oem (any reputable brand other than victor reinz) head gasket.

Injectors, either cheap mustang injectors, or if you want to have room to grow look into siemens deka 60lbhr setups. Theyre like 225 for a set of 6 new.

For management, whodwho pnp megasquirt units are the shit.

[kamotors]

lets just make it simple- your car revlimits at like 4800 or 5200 depending on the year.

Your average holset (hx35/h1c) turbo will spool at 3k and get maybe 8-10psi by 4500.

Your car will be faster no doubt, 3rd-5th gear should have usable power.
but first and second will barely hit boost before by the time you shift.
Honestly I don't think you will even have boost in first gear.

even a 325i that revs to 6500rpms will only get 2-3psi by the revlimiter in first gear with a holset h1c.

you have like 14lb injectors or something stupidly small, you'll need minimum of 30lbers to run 10psi.


and the E clutch definetly holds more power than an I clutch from the factory. I've built 2 E's into 327i turbo cars and one clutch slipped at 14psi if there was passengers and the other doesn't slip at 15psi no matter who is in the car or how the cars driven,torque is right around 300 at 15psi and the car is very fast.

[bigredguy]

Looks like you have a lot of research to do. A t3 turbo is the flange size. A t3 turbo can come in multiple sizes. A non wastegate manifold is just a manifold that doesn't have a place to mount a wastegate. The cxracing one is cheap but may need some work to fit right. Search around. Do your homework before putting together a kit. An 885 head is the best way to turbo a car since the eta motors only rev to 5k. Do whatever you want, but make sure you know what your doing before hand.

I plan on it. This is something I probably wont be doing until atleast winter, if not it will be put off until summer, which is more likely. I have heard good things about the fitment of the cxracing manifold. thanks for the input though

If you aren't changing out the head, and there's nothing wrong with the headgasket, swap the head bolts for arps and leave it alone. If you eventually get an 885 head, then you may want to oring the block (depending on your goals) with the oem (any reputable brand other than victor reinz) head gasket.

Injectors, either cheap mustang injectors, or if you want to have room to grow look into siemens deka 60lbhr setups. Theyre like 225 for a set of 6 new.

For management, whodwho pnp megasquirt units are the shit.

I heard the exact opposite about the head gasket. Also, to my knowledge of owning the car it has never been replaced and Ive owned the car for 21k miles, so I will probably be doing it, so I am looking for recomendations that will be good for the FI. After an above comment I will likely be going with the 36# mustang injectors as well.

lets just make it simple- your car revlimits at like 4800 or 5200 depending on the year.

Your average holset (hx35/h1c) turbo will spool at 3k and get maybe 8-10psi by 4500.

Your car will be faster no doubt, 3rd-5th gear should have usable power.
but first and second will barely hit boost before by the time you shift.
Honestly I don't think you will even have boost in first gear.

even a 325i that revs to 6500rpms will only get 2-3psi by the revlimiter in first gear with a holset h1c.

you have like 14lb injectors or something stupidly small, you'll need minimum of 30lbers to run 10psi.


and the E clutch definetly holds more power than an I clutch from the factory. I've built 2 E's into 327i turbo cars and one clutch slipped at 14psi if there was passengers and the other doesn't slip at 15psi no matter who is in the car or how the cars driven,torque is right around 300 at 15psi and the car is very fast.

I do not plan on running anything near 14 or 15psi. I only want to run 6-8 pounds. Also the car comes with 19# injectors and from reading the few build threads I could find people used the stock injectors but they were maxed out so I will be upgrading just to have room for growth. As far as the turbo goes, I am looking at running something very small. From the few builds I have read I believe they came from a volvo 740, and i believe another one was from a 7.2l duramax. I still have alot of research to do about the size of the turbo, but I am not looking for anything large, or a large amount of boost.

I understand the low rev limit does affect the boost, but it is just a daily driver I am trying to make quick and fun. This way will give me much more power than just the 885 head swap and will possibly be cheaper than the refinished myster-e performance heads.

I appreciate the help so far, and if anyone has any recommendations for turbo size, and/or what vehicle they can be found in, because that is most likely what I will be doing and getting a rebuild kit for it.

[bigredguy]

Also another question I have is do you really need megasquirt? Of the 3 ETA turbo builds I have come across only 1 of them used megasquirt and the others just used a 9:1 or 10:1 FMU. Would this be a viable option of a budget setup? Maybe paired with a chip and a dyno tune?

Or would megasquirt provide more power and be easier to tune?

Just something I remembered as of now and wanted to clarify, because a FMU seems much easier and cheaper than MS

[ak-]

Thanks alot, alot of helpful info. As far as the internally wasgated manifolds, isnt it the turbo that is internally wastegated? Sorry if the questions are dumb, but like I said I am new to this and since I couldnt find many builds about this, or any descriptive ones I posted here.

Also as far as a properly sized turbo goes I was planning on running a T3. Correct me if I am wrong, but a T3 turbo can come in a few different sizes, or is that when people swap out T4 parts onto T3 turbos to make them a T3/4 hybrid?

I will definitely look into the 36# injectors as well. Do you have any suggestions as for what management to run? I would like something that would be as simple as possible, but also be best for the application and a DD. Megasquirt seems to be the most popular standalone, but do you have any other suggestions to this?

Yeah excuse me, when I say internal wasted manifold I mean a manifold that doesn't have a provision to put a wastegate on. CXracing sells both types of manifolds.

You could definitely go that route considering you're not looking to build a freeway hero yes.
You'll need a wideband to tune your air fuel ratio's though.
I would just get Megasquirt from the start so you can expand in the future, just the way the other dude mentioned to just get bigger injectors.

T3 and T4 are just classifications created by Garrett. T3's have a smaller volume turbine and flange size than a T4, which has a bigger turbine volume as well as wheel size on the compressor side. When you hear people say t3/t4, they usually have a t3 flanged and sized turbine and t4 sized compressor wheel so that they can make big power up top and still have a relatively fast spool. I have a t3/t4 Hybrid :)
Don't worry about that though since the ETA engine doesn't have enough exhaust to spin it efficiently :p

[bigredguy]

Yeah excuse me, when I say internal wasted manifold I mean a manifold that doesn't have a provision to put a wastegate on. CXracing sells both types of manifolds.

You could definitely go that route considering you're not looking to build a freeway hero yes.
You'll need a wideband to tune your air fuel ratio's though.
I would just get Megasquirt from the start so you can expand in the future, just the way the other dude mentioned to just get bigger injectors.

T3 and T4 are just classifications created by Garrett. T3's have a smaller volume turbine and flange size than a T4, which has a bigger turbine volume as well as wheel size on the compressor side. When you hear people say t3/t4, they usually have a t3 flanged and sized turbine and t4 sized compressor wheel so that they can make big power up top and still have a relatively fast spool. I have a t3/t4 Hybrid :)
Don't worry about that though since the ETA engine doesn't have enough exhaust to spin it efficiently :p

Alright thanks alot for the help. So what youre saying is I could go with the 10/9:1 FMU instead of the MS, but I would need to run a wideband O2 system?

As far as the MS vs. the FMU and wideband, which would be easier to install, or more plug and play with less tuning? Also from what I understand with the FMU I can still run a performance chip, but with the MS I wouldnt be able to? Correct me if I am wrong

The reason I was looking to go with the FMU as opposed to the MS right away is because it is cheaper, and in the future I do have plans to do the 885 head swap and I would need to buy MS again for the 885 head, so I figure I just go the cheap and easier route to gain some knowledge and just have a more fun until I can save up the money and be able to put my car away for a long period of time to get the 327i turbo running well and tuned well.

[TheTacoMan]

An Fmu is a very cheap way of doing it that is not nearly as reliable and the ability to tune is none existent. I looked into it when I was building my turbo setup. All it does is raise the fuel pressure in proportion to boost, yes you can reflash a chip, and get a m30 afm to adjust a/f ratios. By the time you do that the price difference from megasquirt is not much. A good Fmu costs a decent amount.
:tsk: