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Engine Drives great but stumbles at idle

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    Engine Drives great but stumbles at idle

    Due to an incident totally my e30 in 2020 I transferred all useable components to a new chassis. Car drove great before, the impact was at 70mph where the car blew a rear left tire and sent me sideways into a ditch, I walked away completely fine so id like to think the motor did too 🤞🏾 but it did break the weld on the motor mounting on the subframe. It's been a year now and ever since ive been having an erratic idle and possibly may be getting worse slightly. Ive been slowly trying to track it down while solving other pressing issues that came with this full year on build. Most wear items on this car is new aside from major components.

    Symptoms
    - The car drives great never stumbles on acceleration, ever.
    - Once driven, mostly on a highway then coming to a offramp stop the idle often times will sit high above 1k and slowly come back down to regular idle. This fluctuation happens at times randomly but not as much on cold star.
    - The best way to describe the idle is a slight steady bucking
    - When you put your hand near the tail pipe the exhaust puffs out and is in sync with the engine bucking, this puffing stops when you rev the engine.
    - A new one that occurred in the last month, it's stalled 2 times while cruising downhill coming towards a stop, very very odd and im not too sure what clue thats adding to the issue.
    - Check engine comes once engine warms up, goes away under load and returns on at idle after 5-10 secs
    - Borescope cylinders look great, spark plugs dont show signs of a misfire, great wear after 13k miles.
    - I had a fat exhaust leak which I though was the issue, supersprint headers, stock cat and supersprint exhaust, I sent it to a shop to delete the cats and put a mid section in, leak fixed but not the idle

    Since January slowly ive replaced:
    Cap/rotor
    spark plugs
    Ignition wires
    injectors
    Fuel pumps (wallbro upgrade - 2nd pump was replaced and is still inline)
    CPS 6 years old
    Valve Cover gasket and 4 rubber rocker rod plugs
    Oil Cap
    swapped 02 sensor
    swapped MAF
    swapped Idle control valve (the one I swapped with caused it to idle even more oddly, maybe this one isn't programed for a m20b25 or maybe its the problem, I should probably also try running the car with it unplugged)

    Yesterday I did a leak down test and compression finally, everything came back great 160psi across the board on Compression with very low loss on the leak down. Ive also performed a vacuums leak smoke test twice, im not seeing any leaks but id also like to do this indoors. Ive also sprayed starter fluid near every vacuum component, no luck.

    Things left im going to look at replacing:
    brake vacuum check valve
    I would replace the brake booster but they seem to be discontinued... could very well be the problem as I did have some occasional braking issues.
    Fuel pressure test (is there a such thing as too much to the regulator?)

    Any other ideas based on my symptoms is veery appreciated, im pointing towards vacuum leak but would it cause that kind of bucking idle?? Video of idling below.

    End of the video is probably the best, may do one under the hood if needed​

    Last edited by Garrick2007; 08-04-2023, 03:20 PM.

    #2
    Is this ICV a OEM Bosch unit? Because if it's an off brand they can cause erratic idle issues. I have an OEM one and 2 other off brands. The off brands "work" but one causes electric gremlins and the other has a high idle. Also a vacuum leaks can cause this as well. Check your TPS and make sure it's adjusted correctly. The TPS could be off slightly causing the car to not know when you're on and off throttle. Also the M20 is old tech and the idle is not dead on like a more modern car.

    Also check this thread out for trouble shooting purposes:

    88' Seta 2.7i Zinno

    https://www.r3vlimited.com/board/for...430-my-88-seta

    Comment


      #3
      Originally posted by It's Soda Not Pop View Post
      Is this ICV a OEM Bosch unit? Because if it's an off brand they can cause erratic idle issues. I have an OEM one and 2 other off brands. The off brands "work" but one causes electric gremlins and the other has a high idle. Also a vacuum leaks can cause this as well. Check your TPS and make sure it's adjusted correctly. The TPS could be off slightly causing the car to not know when you're on and off throttle. Also the M20 is old tech and the idle is not dead on like a more modern car.

      Also check this thread out for trouble shooting purposes:
      https://www.r3vlimited.com/board/for...30-jedi-master
      Thanks for that I'll be sure to look thru it!! The ICV I have is 35 year old original Bosch, the one I swapped over just to check (was thrown in when I purchased some parts from a local guy) with was an original Bosch as well but it made the idle even weirder so I put my old one back on. Maybe thats some kind of a sign I should replace it? I just remembered it doing a high idle even at start up (something my original icv does not do). Ive cleaned that one and my original many times and have RTV'd all the ports I could and I can't get smoke to come out of anywhere.

      And forgot to mention ive replaced the TPS and adjusted it before hand and it also made zero change.

      Surprisingly enough my m20 idled very very well before all this.

      Tomorrow I think im going to try and bypass the vacuum feed to the brake booster.
      Last edited by Garrick2007; 08-04-2023, 09:33 PM.

      Comment


        #4
        Try cleaning the ICV as well. Brake clean. Also reset your ECU after you put everything back together.

        88' Seta 2.7i Zinno

        https://www.r3vlimited.com/board/for...430-my-88-seta

        Comment


          #5
          There are a lot of these threads on the forum so I will throw in some wisdom here: It would be greatly helpful if specific details were added at the outset. Examples would be what brand/type of plugs, what rating/type injectors, stock vs modified engine and so on. No offense to OP, but many folks give a long list of items replaced with no details. What I have found over the years is that "primitive" injection systems are not always able to to everything, for example: huge cam + stroke + big injectors + race tune + ??? might result in a car that is balls out fast, but will not idle for crap. An example from my long experience is that 19 pound injectors must be matched up to an appropriate chip unless you want to "blip" the throttle at idle like a dirtbike.

          Comment


            #6
            Originally posted by packratbimmer View Post
            There are a lot of these threads on the forum so I will throw in some wisdom here: It would be greatly helpful if specific details were added at the outset. Examples would be what brand/type of plugs, what rating/type injectors, stock vs modified engine and so on. No offense to OP, but many folks give a long list of items replaced with no details. What I have found over the years is that "primitive" injection systems are not always able to to everything, for example: huge cam + stroke + big injectors + race tune + ??? might result in a car that is balls out fast, but will not idle for crap. An example from my long experience is that 19 pound injectors must be matched up to an appropriate chip unless you want to "blip" the throttle at idle like a dirtbike.
            Thanks for that. This is just your standard E30 M20 nothing special on the drivetrain side accept for a full supersprint exhaust and CAI, all parts listed were replaced with OEM, the cap/rotor is bremi, I later found out who bought them. Like I mentioned this car idled perfectly before having to take it apart, nothing I replaced so far on that list had any negative or positive effect on how it runs.

            Comment


              #7
              Great news everyone, all this drama ended up just being #5 intake gasket. When searching I heard a hissing sound so I tried the starter fluid trick again under the manifold and sure enough, a fat leak. My guess is when I lifted the motor while doing the car build, I remember the straps resting against the head and moved it off after, so I believe the old neglected cracked gasket had a gap to slide thru and was literally hanging out of the intake port. You can also see oil draining out which I guess is a bit of blow by. I haven’t changed these since 2009 so this is fully my fault, so much that I had 2 packs of gaskets here just waiting. Never again
              Click image for larger version  Name:	IMG_8008.jpg Views:	0 Size:	100.8 KB ID:	10101548

              Comment


                #8
                Awesome news!

                Comment


                  #9
                  I'm glad you found the culprit.

                  88' Seta 2.7i Zinno

                  https://www.r3vlimited.com/board/for...430-my-88-seta

                  Comment

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