m20 maf conversion?

[metroya_performance]

is there a conversion I can do to my car to switch out the afm with a newer maf or anything similar? is that even possible?

[metroya_performance]

ok just found out that yes I can. anything besides miller mafs?

[Sagaris]

I will speak without having any first-hand experience but:

My belief is that any gains from a MAF conversion are due to the AFM being old and in need of replacement and I don't trust that it is worth the money and possible running issues. If you plan on running some heavy mods then I could see it being worthwhile.

Anyways, glad you found some info, carry on! :P

[jlevie]

What do you expect to gain from conversion to an MAF? Unless you've done serious modifications to the cylinder head, intake manifold, and exhaust to improve mass flow it won't be power. You might gain better throttle response, but that is about it. The choke point in an M20 engine is head.

[Sagaris]

or in other words, the neck is the head,.... huh? :P

[metroya_performance]

I dont really expect much but basically its just a hobby to see what I can do to this car and then well, do it. I saw some itbs for the dohc vanos motors too and was wondering has that been done on sohc m20s? I dont have any plans for that because I do not want to go that route with messing with my car.

[z31maniac]

This is a new topic that has never been discussed before.

I am eager to see the results of the discussion.

[E30Nova]

This is a new topic that has never been discussed before.

I am eager to see the results of the discussion.

:rofl:

Matt

[sarcasmkillsme]

I will speak without having any first-hand experience but:

My belief is that any gains from a MAF conversion are due to the AFM being old and in need of replacement and I don't trust that it is worth the money and possible running issues. If you plan on running some heavy mods then I could see it being worthwhile.

Anyways, glad you found some info, carry on! :P

You couldn't be more wrong and it's amazing you make that assumption based on no first-hand experience. The Miller MAF conversion is the best bang-for-the-buck performance mod you can have on a m20 sans F.I. You can't beat 300 bucks for the kit which is only 60 bucks more than a good chip. The power in the low to mid-range is a huge leap compared to the stock AFM. Driveability and throttle response is vastly improved. I'd venture to say the engine acts more like a modern engine. Top end will be about the same as a performance chip w/AFM though because the AFM isn't a restriction at higher RPM. Oh and my AFM only had 60k original miles and worked flawlessly. With the MAF conversion, even the idle is improved.

So as you can tell, I'm a big proponent of the Miller MAF and don't just add hearsay to a subject you know jack shit about.:hitler:
My belief is that filling your tires up with helium makes your car faster!

[Sagaris]

Helium is for chumps. I just got back from the strip, ran a 12.9 by creating a perfect vacuum inside my tires.

There is no doubt that the throttle response possible with a MAF sensor is superior to what can be achieved with a vane type airflow meter. I just installed a new throttle cable and 2 people that have driven my car before and after say that my car is faster. Well, its not, the throttle response is improved (via proper cable adjustment and much less friction in the new cable) but I know for a fact that I am making no more power than I was a week ago. People often confuse sharp throttle response with increased power. With the current horsepower wars going on in the auto industry, automakers are using hair-trigger throttle response in new cars to make customers believe that they are faster than they really are. I would agree that you would see increased power from a MAF+Chip since you are also changing the fuel and timing maps, I installed a MarkD chip and felt benefits from it. From what I have read, running the Miller MAF requires a chip that they provide. I still have not seen any dyno proof that the MAF conversion itself (with a stock chip) increases power. If someone can prove me wrong with some real evidence then please do but it is not my intent to drag out the great MAFconversion debate.

[z31maniac]

You couldn't be more wrong and it's amazing you make that assumption based on no first-hand experience. The Miller MAF conversion is the best bang-for-the-buck performance mod you can have on a m20 sans F.I. You can't beat 300 bucks for the kit which is only 60 bucks more than a good chip. The power in the low to mid-range is a huge leap compared to the stock AFM. Driveability and throttle response is vastly improved. I'd venture to say the engine acts more like a modern engine. Top end will be about the same as a performance chip w/AFM though because the AFM isn't a restriction at higher RPM. Oh and my AFM only had 60k original miles and worked flawlessly. With the MAF conversion, even the idle is improved.

So as you can tell, I'm a big proponent of the Miller MAF and don't just add hearsay to a subject you know jack shit about.:hitler:
My belief is that filling your tires up with helium makes your car faster!

Got some dyno's to back this up?

[nando]

the only dyno of a MAF conversion I've ever seen is Miller's own which claims a 20whp increase. I'm still skeptical.

as far as what the restriction is (re: jlevie), yeah it's the head.. and intake manifold, and throttle body, and AFM, and airbox, and exhaust, and cam, etc. etc. The engine was put together with everything sized "just right" for everything else. you can't really upgrade one thing and expect a huge increase with everything else left stock.

[Schniddy]

as far as what the restriction is (re: jlevie), yeah it's the head.. and intake manifold, and throttle body, and AFM, and airbox, and exhaust, and cam, etc. etc. The engine was put together with everything sized "just right" for everything else. you can't really upgrade one thing and expect a huge increase with everything else left stock.

dude, but I installed a cone filter and felt the difference?

[briansjacobs]

the only dyno of a MAF conversion I've ever seen is Miller's own which claims a 20whp increase. I'm still skeptical.

as far as what the restriction is (re: jlevie), yeah it's the head.. and intake manifold, and throttle body, and AFM, and airbox, and exhaust, and cam, etc. etc. The engine was put together with everything sized "just right" for everything else. you can't really upgrade one thing and expect a huge increase with everything else left stock.

winner winner chicken dinner. I can tell you there is no way in hell 20RWHP with the MAF alone. And again, to reideerate what nando stated, ig you get more air in through the MAF how are you going to get it through the intake manifold and out the exhaust?

I can show you a 20 RWHP gain with no mods at all, just by tweaking the dyno paramaters.

[Curt Hayes]

I still have not seen any dyno proof that the MAF conversion itself (with a stock chip) increases power. If someone can prove me wrong with some real evidence then please do but it is not my intent to drag out the great MAFconversion debate.

Not sure you could get a MAF to function with a stock chip. I read a write-up by a guy that made his own conversion, and he said the issue is two-fold: the MAF puts out a different range of signal for the same flow, and he found that there are resonances that the MAF will measure that the AFM will filter out due to the mass of the door limiting the response rate. The resonance causes the MAF to measure the air flowing both directions, leading to rich running because the DME thinks there is more air going in than really is.
So, you might be able to find a MAF with some sort of conversion chip onboard, but the DME will get confused by the double-measurement of the air. This guy's conclusion was that you need a chip with a special map to take care of both of these problems.
Caveat: I don't know the guy, and can't find the write-up, so I can't vouch for the science involved. From what I can remember, it looked pretty solid, though.