M20 with kugelfischer inj and flatslide ITB

[spdracrm3]

wonder what the story is on this motor?

[TobyB]

didn't BMW say that the M20 was never to be raced- verboten?
Then designed the rocker geometry to guarantee it.

Someone should tell Pro3 that, huh...

KFish working well is probably about equal to Motronic with a bit 'o chip.

t

[bmwstudent]

i read about a m20 hartge put out in the h27sp that had a different intake manifold with independent throttles for each cylinder. I don't know if it had kugelfisher injection though. I read about it in Andrew Everetts' E30-3 series restoration bible. They have it rated at 220 bhp at 6400 rpm. Sounds pretty sick

[nu-B]

That dry sump looking pump on the side of the block is a fuel pump???? Holy shnikes.

[SkiFree]

That dry sump looking pump on the side of the block is a fuel pump???? Holy shnikes.

Welcome to mechanical fuel injection, take a look at some F1 engines of the late 60's, stuff's crazy.


As for that picture, the valve cover is from a euro E21 M20. Which would stand to reason with these pictures.... (wish I remember where they came from).





EDIT: Google'd Kolb Motorsport, looks like a match! http://www.kolb-motorsport.de/ , looks like they have their hand in some pretty nice engines.

[nu-B]

This little guy is bad ass! There's a 73 2002 across the alley from me,and it eats me up that its just a cat house. sux.

[Madhatter]

Ive got some old scans here somewhere of some e21 racing stuff, pretty sure schnitzer or mk motorsport did something similar with m20's too.

[MonkeyMadness]

Setup doesn't look hard to build...!

[kronus]

looks like someone learned to build race motors in the era of 2002s. Pretty awesome stuff, not sure how it compares to modern injection, though.

[nando]

looks like someone learned to build race motors in the era of 2002s. Pretty awesome stuff, not sure how it compares to modern injection, though.

it can't.

neat setup, but other than the throttles, nothing to get excited about these days. looks like custom made slide-throttles?

[SkiFree]

it can't.

neat setup, but other than the throttles, nothing to get excited about these days. looks like custom made slide-throttles?

If someone is choosing M20 for efficient performance then they're already on the wrong road.

Slide throttles were from Schrick. Guess it's like an on/off switch.

[nando]

who said anything about efficiency?

think about the time and cost involved in tuning. a modern EFI system is going to be easier to tune, more efficient, cheaper, while also being more reliable.

[Madhatter]

How does it compare on a race motor? efi isn't really going to be any better, especially if you don't run the slide throttles. You could argue that EFI systems have better control over part throttle conditions, however racing, you don't require near perfect management at all revs/load. The power figures speak for themselves, NA m12's ended up pulling about 320bhp+ out of 2L 4's, you'd struggle to get any more power from them if they ran an EFI system. Combined with slide throttles, the system made response razor sharp, such a nasty motor. Mechanical fuel injection and pressure systems like this are very reliable and are actually pretty accurate. They manage to last 20+ years on oem cars without so much as replacement components or proper servicing, we just hear reliability stories now because people seem to expect them to still be running around like they were new when they haven't been touched since they left the showroom. Most unreliable component on that engine is probably the slide throttles.

That all gets thrown out the window when you are talking a race situation where your components are going to be new or rebuilt, this isnt a mechanical cis setup like jetronic, this is a full blown mechanical fuel injection system. Injectors don't fail, the pumps are fully mechanical and can be rebuilt and this particular system runs a cam system that allows it to vary the amount of fuel being injected depending on revs/throttle/load. They actually do a better job at atomising fuel than EFI systems can manage (getting up there with DI now though), simply because of the pressures involved. They didn't stop using the systems because EFI was better, they stopped using them because EFI was cheaper to put into production. They still ran mechanical fuel injection systems on race cars right through the 90's (some racing series still run them). Have a look at the names running kugelfischer injection systems, I don't think there isn't a marque out there that hasn't run it on their race cars in the last 30 years. It was only until really good sequential injection systems came along that they started to be seen less and less, even then it had a lot to do with the ignition systems, not so much the fuel side of things. Incredibly expensive these days though, unless you want period correct, you'd be mad running it. Can't imagine what it costs to rebuild a fuel pump these days, let alone who you'd take it to as they are basically a system of valves and pistons that are forced open when the fuel pressure is high enough. Really need to know what you are doing to service them.

[e30leigh]

i agree with madhatter, mech fuel injection looks messy at times but merc was still running the kjet system on there performance models well into the 90's. injectors on modern cars fail all the time. be it the seats wearing out and not spraying right, or the coil failing and not opening right. or other components that fail and drip, leak, dont give good spray patterns. but these mechanical systems had a great run. obviously i wasnt born when they were at the hight to production and use back in the 60's through to the 80's but if f1 ran them with great success then they need to be good. just like the mighty m10 gets noses turned up at it for being an old 4cyl 1.8 but they were raced and had like likes of 800+ hp coming out of them. things are not all as they seem.
as for those slide throttle..... JELOUS!!! i want some. they would be wicked with a custom plenum running on my turbo project :P

[nando]

if it could make more power than EFI (total nonsense), they would still be used in pro racing.. but they aren't.