M20 Injectors - Why use m50?

[5Toes]

Have done some research tonight.. and these injectors should be the upgrade for m20s. From speaking with a german enthusiast (and other european BMW nuts) I have learned m50 injectors really are too big

I present these!

http://www.ebay.com/itm/92-94-AUDI-100S-90-S-QUATTRO-2-8-V6-FUEL-INJECTORS-SET-0280150552-/180929119267?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&hash=item2a20374423&vxp=mtr&_uhb=1#ht_1800wt_1110

These injectors seem like the perfect match. Stock e30 injectors are high impedance, top feed, <b>152.4 cc/min</b> injectors. Their drawback however is that they are single pintle design

These are high impedance, top feed, <b>149.8 cc/min</b> injectors that utilize a 4 pintle design.

So there we have it. I haven't tried these myself, or have heard of anybody who has, but please share your thoughts!

[TurboJake]

The 1998-2000 mercury Mystique/Ford Contour 2.5l Non-SVT injectors are Bosch Design III 4 hole pintleless design, that is 17 lbs/hr @3bar (slightly less flow than the M50 injectors, and 4 hole)
Bosch part number 0280155771

And can be had for cheap as dirt.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/98-00-Mercury-Mystique-Ford-Contour-2-5L-V6-Non-SVT-ASNU-Tested-Fuel-Injectors-/271009974917?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&vxp=mtr&hash=item3f19740a85#ht_6890wt_1159

and there's a 15lb/hr injector that will swap in. But I'd need to dive deep into my bosch part book to find the part number.

EDIT: it's 0280155847
15 lbs/hr.

Stock M20 injector is 0280150715

Stock XXXXXX715 15.9Ohms 166ml/min 0angle 80%area spray 60.5mm oring to oring 77mm total length (Including pintle cap)
15lbGenIII XXXXXX847 14.5Ohms 166ml/min 0angle 30%area spray 60.3mm oring to oring 74mm total length
17lbGenIII XXXXXX771 14,5Ohms 196ml/min 0angle 30%area spray 60.35mm oring to oring 73mm total length


^R3v, y u no let me do proper spacing?

[WhyNot]

at the risk of hijacking this thread, can i get some links that explain why pintleless is a better design.
to over simplify it all, does the better injectors simply create a finer mist that enhances combustion?
thanks
whynot

[5Toes]

Man I thought the ones I posted were a pretty good alternative

I used this chart to find them

http://users.erols.com/srweiss/tableifc.htm#BOSCH

[TurboJake]

at the risk of hijacking this thread, can i get some links that explain why pintleless is a better design.
to over simplify it all, does the better injectors simply create a finer mist that enhances combustion?
thanks
whynot

You pretty much have it.
Less moving and wear parts (More reliable)
Better mist, better atomization (Better burn, more power and with the same amount of fuel, resulting in higher efficiency)
Better spray concentration (only the valve, vs the valve and a large portion of port)

Will it be a noticeable improvement. Sure. But nothing along the lines of 5 bazillion more HP and MPG's.

Here's the best link of all, really.



AND

[5Toes]

So Jake, what is better?

The ones i linked to or the ones you linked to? Because they both have the different style body, etc.

[WhyNot]

Here's the best link of all, really.

AND

that was exactly what my little brain needed to see.
thanks
the comment at the end of the second video is important too.
in that even a good injector but one that is unbalanced will get the motor twisted.
thanks again man

[e30moneypit]

your german friends are wrong and so is most peoples info in the past few threads Ive read on here.

People focus soley on the flow with no regard to the pressure.

The "M50 17.5s" are a mere couple of cc bigger than the stock M20s.People pull them with no regard to the fact that that e36 uses 3.5 bar fpr and e30 "i" use 3.0... "e"2.5 btw.


stock e30 "i" units 0280150715 flow154cc @3 bar

stock e36 17.5s greens or whatever you chose to call them 0280150415 flow 166cc @ 3 Bar

stop focusing on urban legends and do proper research and look at flow under XX bar for proper application.

good day.


PS --- makes me wonder if all thsoe chip tuners really did test the "17.5s" and "19s" when they clearly do not flow that on e30s. 17.5s flow less and the 19s flow more.....

[TurboJake]

All of the part numbers I listed are rated at 3 bar. I should've mentioned that.

[5Toes]

Interesting turnout to this thread. lol

[MR 325]

The "M50 17.5s" are a mere couple of cc bigger than the stock M20s.People pull them with no regard to the fact that that e36 uses 3.5 bar fpr and e30 "i" use 3.0... "e"2.5 btw.

But a little bigger is all you really need. Most people that think they need to upgrade their injectors have no further mods than an off the shelf chip and a catback exhaust.

[Timp]

Not to hijack this thread either, but if I switched over to the pintleless in my ETA, would this result in higher miles per gallon? If so, would it be a noticeable difference? I've been thinking of having my injectors rebuilt anyway, so perhaps switching over to these could be a good idea?

Any input appreciated.

[TrentW]

your german friends are wrong and so is most peoples info in the past few threads Ive read on here.

People focus soley on the flow with no regard to the pressure.

The "M50 17.5s" are a mere couple of cc bigger than the stock M20s.People pull them with no regard to the fact that that e36 uses 3.5 bar fpr and e30 "i" use 3.0... "e"2.5 btw.


stock e30 "i" units 0280150715 flow154cc @3 bar

stock e36 17.5s greens or whatever you chose to call them 0280150415 flow 166cc @ 3 Bar

stop focusing on urban legends and do proper research and look at flow under XX bar for proper application.

good day.


PS --- makes me wonder if all thsoe chip tuners really did test the "17.5s" and "19s" when they clearly do not flow that on e30s. 17.5s flow less and the 19s flow more.....

So please clarify, are you saying go with the stock E30 "i" injectors or the 19#?

[MaksV]

E30moneypit hit it right on the mark. The M20 runs at 3 bar and the M50 runs at 3.5bar. In reality I have had lots of good experiances running even 19# (~210cc) in a chipped and lightly modded M20. The 19# yellow units actually become 21.5# in a e36 (since it runs at 3.5bar) making them actually equivalent to the pink top S52 units.

Generally going from a single hole to a 4 hole design is preferable for atomization. However having the correct size injector is much more important. This is why I recommend the M50 green tops for stock or basic M20s, and the 19# for modded cars.

[Sagaris]

Better atomization is had with the 4 hole Bosch Design II and Design III injectors (as opposed to the single pintle Bosch Design I).

Better atomization means that the fuel has a greater opportunity to burn more completely due to having finer droplets of fuel and more air surrounding them. If the fuel was a solid stream into the engine, the fuel on the outermost layer of the stream would have to burn first for the rest of the fuel towards the center of the stream to ignite which would cause incomplete combustion, hence the reason small dispersed fuel droplets are preferable.

So yes, as long as the flow rate of the injectors stays the same (or corresponding changes are made to the tune which shorten the injector pulse widths when running larger injectors) then fuel efficiency will increase with better atomization since you are able to do more work with the same amount of fuel. It mainly comes down to the driver being able to take advantage of this though.