Newly rebuilt M20 AFM - $70 (Standard MF20040) NOT a forsale thread

[noid]

All of the rebuilt AFM's that I've encountered (mostly Fuel Injection Corp,) have had their wiper arm adjusted. The resistor strip was not replaced.

Two wrongs don't make a right. Just because they do it improperly doesn't mean that is the way everyone else should be doing it. Generally speaking that is the most profitable way to do it (at the expense of the customer) since it requires no new parts and hardly any labour.

As per the link above, some AFM's have a running voltage of 12V and some have a running voltage of 5V. Using 9V battery could yield inaccurate results. In the e30, most of them have a reference voltage, to the AFM, of 5V DC. Using a 12V reference voltage on a 5V unit could ruin it, so keep that in mind DIY'rs.

There is no need to scare DIY'ers. Its a simple process, that virtually anyone can do. I love that you provide a service to the community and people see value in that. However, there is no reason to scare people into not doing it themselves.

[ForcedFirebird]

All of the rebuilt AFM's that I've encountered (mostly Fuel Injection Corp,) have had their wiper arm adjusted. The resistor strip was not replaced.

As per the link above, some AFM's have a running voltage of 12V and some have a running voltage of 5V. Using 9V battery could yield inaccurate results. In the e30, most of them have a reference voltage, to the AFM, of 5V DC. Using a 12V reference voltage on a 5V unit could ruin it, so keep that in mind DIY'rs.

They interchange. The Motronic 1.0 uses 5v, 1.3 uses 12v and they are a direct swap for each other (153 ECU is plug and play for a 173).

I have been hacking the OBD1 ECU's for years.

[ForcedFirebird]

If you follow the link I posted, you can test your AFM to make sure it is in fact bad.

[Gregs///M]

All of the rebuilt AFM's that I've encountered (mostly Fuel Injection Corp,) have had their wiper arm adjusted. The resistor strip was not replaced.

As per the link above, some AFM's have a running voltage of 12V and some have a running voltage of 5V. Using 9V battery could yield inaccurate results. In the e30, most of them have a reference voltage, to the AFM, of 5V DC. Using a 12V reference voltage on a 5V unit could ruin it, so keep that in mind DIY'rs.

[noid]

FWIW BWD also makes water pumps for the 24v BMW's and watched one spill it's guts in less than 2 weeks of daily driving. Only good thing is I got paid to install it twice, but bad for the customer. I told her not to use inferior parts and it costs her my labor even though it had a lifetime replacement.

From what I recall the Distributor rotor for the m20 is a shitty design too. Apparently instead of using allen bolts it uses Philip bolts to mount (stupid with it being such a tight working area), I have also heard of premature failure. I have also heard good things too about different items they sell.

The AFM design is shared with porsche/vw/bmw so the volume they rebuild may make these units good units. I just want one of these units opened up to inspect how they did it. I would just buy one and check but considering I have to make a 1.5 hour drive to buffalo to get one (since double the price here). It would be nice if someone else would check :)

[ForcedFirebird]

FWIW BWD also makes water pumps for the 24v BMW's and watched one spill it's guts in less than 2 weeks of daily driving. Only good thing is I got paid to install it twice, but bad for the customer. I told her not to use inferior parts and it costs her my labor even though it had a lifetime replacement.

[noid]

NO one is holding a gun to you head and making you buy my AFM's. Call it what you want but my customers have all but provided outstanding feedback on the AFM's that I sold. They have shown results that fixed and improved their drivability. For the price, often around $100 shipped, its a very convenient and affordable option for those not familiar or capable of rebuilding their own AFM's.

The same deal goes with my SI boards. I'm sure many r3v members can change their own SI board batteries but I provide this service to help out the community for those not capable of doing it themselves.

Just because you can EASILY understand what is going on in the AFM rebuild, does not mean Borg Warner runs some highly complex rebuild service. You need to realize the structure of the AFM is well over 20+ years old and very simple in nature. It does not take an Electrical Engineer like your dad. But much like your dad, I am a electrical engineering technician for over 10+ years and highly qualified in the work I do for the community.

I've also rebuilt AFM's and measured their output on my o-scope only to find that they did not pass my test because of voltage drop out. An o-scope should be a tool used to repair AFM's, at bare minimum or else you could be installing an AFM that performs worse. Does everyone have an oscilloscope? no.

So like you said, VERIFYING is the key to a successful AFM rebuild. Who would want to buy an AFM that is not VERIFIED working?

If you are so concerned about your AFM build quality, just buy a new one from Bosch.

Well lets not forget I started this thread :-D, and surely I am not being forced into buying anything.

Electrical engineering technician =/= Professional electrical engineer.

I agree that even though Borg warner has the capital to invest in proper equipment that does not mean they have actually invested in it. I am 100% certain they at least have a simple device like an oscilloscope to test the units post rebuild. So they ARE verified as far as I am concerned; I couldn't imagine a company that size blindly selling maybe-working units. In any case, the BWD units can be returned to a local parts store for 100% refund.

Python is another story, look here:

http://maps.google.ca/maps?q=8610+Central+Avenue+Stanton,+California+90680%2B&ll=33.802919,-117.981362&spn=0.015673,0.033023&hnear=8610+Central+Ave,+Stanton,+California+90680,+United+States&gl=ca&t=m&z=16&layer=c&cbll=33.804255,-117.983496&panoid=m9wUPlzQur-J0s8rfZ0eHQ&cbp=12,106.06,,0,3.16

This is their HQ, does it look like a place that is competent or has the proper amount of capital to be able to rebuild AFM's? I wouldn't trust them, thats for sure.

[ForcedFirebird]

Testing and repairing an AFM is simple. Here's a site that's been up for some 11yrs regarding the subject using nothing more than a 9v battery and a DVM to test an AFM...

http://www.the944.com/afm.htm

Yes, it's a Porsche site, but since they also used Motronic 1.3, it's the same thing.

[Gregs///M]

I find it odd to say you do much more but then confirm that all you do is verify the results. You admittedly can not do anything about the spring tension nor do you replace any parts. Bending the arm on a shaped curved to be lower or higher on the strip also creates a shorter/longer travel of the sensor thus setting it off spec as small as that may be in your opinion.

If any company could afford laser calibration equipment it would be a company the size of borg warner. For all I know the Borg warner unit is as shit as shit can get; hence this thread to see if anyone has any feedback.

You do a very good job of fluffing the wording about about what you do, but in my opinion you do very little for the price requested. My father has his Masters in Electrical Engineering and has 30 years experience. Luckily I have had the privilege of seeing him build (eg, ham radio from scratch), rebuild, and repair electronics. Don't get me wrong I know jack shit about electrical engineering. That being said if I can EASILY understand what you are doing and classifying as "rebuilding" you are hardly doing more then bending, cleaning, and verifying.

I think in honour of this thread people can simply watch these videos:

http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=afm+rebuild+bosch&oq=afm+rebuild+bosch&gs_l=youtube.3...153.3196.0.3312.17.17.0.0.0.0.191.1370.13j3.16.0...0.0...1ac.9Z4kyx_Bh7U

and "rebuild" their AFM's themselves.

NO one is holding a gun to you head and making you buy my AFM's. Call it what you want but my customers have all but provided outstanding feedback on the AFM's that I sold. They have shown results that fixed and improved their drivability. For the price, often around $100 shipped, its a very convenient and affordable option for those not familiar or capable of rebuilding their own AFM's.

The same deal goes with my SI boards. I'm sure many r3v members can change their own SI board batteries but I provide this service to help out the community for those not capable of doing it themselves.

Just because you can EASILY understand what is going on in the AFM rebuild, does not mean Borg Warner runs some highly complex rebuild service. You need to realize the structure of the AFM is well over 20+ years old and very simple in nature. It does not take an Electrical Engineer like your dad. But much like your dad, I am a electrical engineering technician for over 10+ years and highly qualified in the work I do for the community.

I've also rebuilt AFM's and measured their output on my o-scope only to find that they did not pass my test because of voltage drop out. An o-scope should be a tool used to repair AFM's, at bare minimum or else you could be installing an AFM that performs worse. Does everyone have an oscilloscope? no.

So like you said, VERIFYING is the key to a successful AFM rebuild. Who would want to buy an AFM that is not VERIFIED working?

If you are so concerned about your AFM build quality, just buy a new one from Bosch.

[noid]

My AFM's are all tested and use the same 4 pin connector as per the Bentley manual. I suspect you were send an AFM from a vehicle that was not compatible to yours. If it was the correct connector, and did not seat, there must have been physical damage to either connector.

Each AFM is tested in a variety of ways. As per my ad, the inlet air temperature sensor is tested throughout its range. The electrical contacts are not just adjusted, but disassembled and cleaned. Once re-assembled the internal spring tension is tested vs a know good and recently refurbished AFM that I have acquired from Fuel Injection Corp. This spring tension is a very tight tolerance set by Bosch that uses a laser calibration method.

Finally, each AFM is tested through the oscilloscope. There is NO better way to check the voltage feedback of an AFM. Not even a running car. The voltage is verified throughout a time scale and results captured by the oscilloscope. Any drops in voltage or non linearity would should up and we be justification for failing the AFM. Please read my ad for more details of the electrical feedback testing process. It is tested for repeatability in both the high throughput and low throughput (high speed and low speed air input.)



An oscilloscope capture "Verifies" voltage feedback as per unit Time. If the AFM was non working or developed some sort of deviation from its normal feedback, the o-scope would catch it. My rebuilds are much more than just bending the arm and cleaning the contacts. All sensors and tension are verified vs a known fresh rebuild. In addition, since their feedback is verified through several cycles, it is proof of their working operation.

The Bosch AFM has long been discontinued and I highly doubt they would trust anyone but their own testing standards to rebuild the AFM. Just unloading the spring, would require complex laser calibration from Bosch. For this reason, I do not re-sell any AFM that has its spring disassembled, modified, or removed.

I find it odd to say you do much more but then confirm that all you do is verify the results. You admittedly can not do anything about the spring tension nor do you replace any parts. Bending the arm on a shaped curved to be lower or higher on the strip also creates a shorter/longer travel of the sensor thus setting it off spec as small as that may be in your opinion.

If any company could afford laser calibration equipment it would be a company the size of borg warner. For all I know the Borg warner unit is as shit as shit can get; hence this thread to see if anyone has any feedback.

You do a very good job of fluffing the wording about about what you do, but in my opinion you do very little for the price requested. My father has his Masters in Electrical Engineering and has 30 years experience. Luckily I have had the privilege of seeing him build (eg, ham radio from scratch), rebuild, and repair electronics. Don't get me wrong I know jack shit about electrical engineering. That being said if I can EASILY understand what you are doing and classifying as "rebuilding" you are hardly doing more then bending, cleaning, and verifying.

I think in honour of this thread people can simply watch these videos:

http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=afm+rebuild+bosch&oq=afm+rebuild+bosch&gs_l=youtube.3...153.3196.0.3312.17.17.0.0.0.0.191.1370.13j3.16.0...0.0...1ac.9Z4kyx_Bh7U

and "rebuild" their AFM's themselves.

[Gregs///M]

The problem with one of the AFMs I got from Python was not that it failed electronic testing but the connector wouldn't physically seat correctly. That's something the re-manufacturer wouldn't know unless they hooked it up to a car and ran it.

Gregs///M, how do you test the devices to ensure that it's really going to work properly? I think there's more to a part than just operating within acceptable electronic parameters. I'm not asking this to challenge or disrespect you in any way but because I'm in the market for an AFM and want to know that I'm going to get something that will work before I put up cash + shipping (for a third time).

My AFM's are all tested and use the same 4 pin connector as per the Bentley manual. I suspect you were send an AFM from a vehicle that was not compatible to yours. If it was the correct connector, and did not seat, there must have been physical damage to either connector.

Each AFM is tested in a variety of ways. As per my ad, the inlet air temperature sensor is tested throughout its range. The electrical contacts are not just adjusted, but disassembled and cleaned. Once re-assembled the internal spring tension is tested vs a know good and recently refurbished AFM that I have acquired from Fuel Injection Corp. This spring tension is a very tight tolerance set by Bosch that uses a laser calibration method.

Finally, each AFM is tested through the oscilloscope. There is NO better way to check the voltage feedback of an AFM. Not even a running car. The voltage is verified throughout a time scale and results captured by the oscilloscope. Any drops in voltage or non linearity would should up and we be justification for failing the AFM. Please read my ad for more details of the electrical feedback testing process. It is tested for repeatability in both the high throughput and low throughput (high speed and low speed air input.)

I am not sure if I would call bending the arm and cleaning the electrical points to be a rebuild.

An oscilloscope is more for you to confirm you didnt mess up the bending of the arm before sending it back to someone.

I am almost certain all the rebuild places also use an oscilloscope after their rebuilds.

The thing I want to know is if if the blue streak/BWD units have new boards, instead of a bent arm.

Pyton =/= BWD. As far as I know the BWD units are rebuilt here in Canada at one of their facilities.

@IAmGary: Since you can get the BWD unit from your local auto store, try it out the worst that can happen is that you will return it for a full refund.

An oscilloscope capture "Verifies" voltage feedback as per unit Time. If the AFM was non working or developed some sort of deviation from its normal feedback, the o-scope would catch it. My rebuilds are much more than just bending the arm and cleaning the contacts. All sensors and tension are verified vs a known fresh rebuild. In addition, since their feedback is verified through several cycles, it is proof of their working operation.

The Bosch AFM has long been discontinued and I highly doubt they would trust anyone but their own testing standards to rebuild the AFM. Just unloading the spring, would require complex laser calibration from Bosch. For this reason, I do not re-sell any AFM that has its spring disassembled, modified, or removed.

[noid]

I rebuild AFM's. Check my thread here. http://www.r3vlimited.com/board/show...83#post3152483

It is my opinion that most of these "parts warehouses" take a AFM from a known running car. Sandblast the outside, repaint, clear coat, and re-sell these units. I doubt they go through the extensive electrical testing that I put mine through. I also clean every electrical contact point and verify operation on my oscilloscope. Each customer receives photos and o-scope printouts of their personal AFM.

I am not sure if I would call bending the arm and cleaning the electrical points to be a rebuild.

An oscilloscope is more for you to confirm you didnt mess up the bending of the arm before sending it back to someone.

I am almost certain all the rebuild places also use an oscilloscope after their rebuilds.

The thing I want to know is if if the blue streak/BWD units have new boards, instead of a bent arm.

Pyton =/= BWD. As far as I know the BWD units are rebuilt here in Canada at one of their facilities.

@IAmGary: Since you can get the BWD unit from your local auto store, try it out the worst that can happen is that you will return it for a full refund.

[iansane]

I rebuild AFM's. Check my thread here. http://www.r3vlimited.com/board/show...83#post3152483

It is my opinion that most of these "parts warehouses" take a AFM from a known running car. Sandblast the outside, repaint, clear coat, and re-sell these units. I doubt they go through the extensive electrical testing that I put mine through. I also clean every electrical contact point and verify operation on my oscilloscope. Each customer receives photos and o-scope printouts of their personal AFM.

How would the 'parts warehouse' know the core unit coming in for rebuild was a from a running car?

[IAmGary]

The problem with one of the AFMs I got from Python was not that it failed electronic testing but the connector wouldn't physically seat correctly. That's something the re-manufacturer wouldn't know unless they hooked it up to a car and ran it.

Gregs///M, how do you test the devices to ensure that it's really going to work properly? I think there's more to a part than just operating within acceptable electronic parameters. I'm not asking this to challenge or disrespect you in any way but because I'm in the market for an AFM and want to know that I'm going to get something that will work before I put up cash + shipping (for a third time).

[Gregs///M]

I rebuild AFM's. Check my thread here. http://www.r3vlimited.com/board/show...83#post3152483

It is my opinion that most of these "parts warehouses" take a AFM from a known running car. Sandblast the outside, repaint, clear coat, and re-sell these units. I doubt they go through the extensive electrical testing that I put mine through. I also clean every electrical contact point and verify operation on my oscilloscope. Each customer receives photos and o-scope printouts of their personal AFM.