Newly rebuilt M20 AFM - $70 (Standard MF20040) NOT a forsale thread

[noid]

You DID not question my ability to use an oscilloscope but you did question the validity of how important it is to use to test the AFM. You questioned the importance of oscilloscope vs DMM.

I never once mentioned a DMM. What I said was that this "rebuild" only provides proof that you did not mess up your customers unit, after bending the arm. The actual use of the oscilloscope does not make or assist the AFM is preforming any better or worse. If someone did the same thing you are doing at home, their rebuild would be no better or no worse just because they didn't use an oscilloscope. It a great device, for validating, but is it a tool for actually changing anything? No it is not.

$120 is the price one would pay for my expertise knowledge and for the tools that I use to qualify these AFM's for use again. I call it refurbishing them. You can call it what you want. Whatever its called, it works or else I would have members bashing me on my thread correct? But none have complained and most have said all but great things. $120 also includes a $20 core charge, plus I still have to buy AFM's. They just don't magically appear on my doorstep. I need to buy the AFM's.

Again, I never questioned if your final product worked. Rather if it could be rebuild better, and if it should be done cheaper (my opinion I accept that you have your own, there is nothing wrong with that).

The parts are still good and do not need to be replaced. They just need to be cleaned and adjusted. Then verified. Verification is the most important step and I provide that.

The verification part is the most important step for you, because it provides an empirical way to show that you have actually done something (albeit only bent an arm) and most importantly that you aren't sending back a unit that does not work. I would argue that the most import part are the parts within.

Yes, I take my specs from a recently refurbished Fuel Injection Corp AFM. I trust them and you should too. They've been in business longer than most members here been alive. They reference directly from OEM BMW specs.

I'm only here to help the community by providing technical information and/or providing reliable refurbishment services.

Bosch has been around longer then any human being that is currently alive, what is your point? If I follow your logic because Bosch is older they must have a better unit. Which is odd because I thought they has the best unit because they are the ones who created it. On either count, if logic follows you are working with an inferior unit. I advice you to follow your own logic and get the best unit to reference off of.

Hersay doesn't work in court nor does it work here, just because you THINK fuel injection corp reference directly from OEM BMW Specs does not mean they actually do, or even that they are able to conform to specs. Perhaps they conform to what they envision are their acceptable specs. Perhaps Bosch and BMW both told Fuel injection corp to shove it (likely case) and they dont have the OEM specs. Perhaps it is most profitable (at the expensive of the customer) to only bend the arm, rather then do a full and proper rebuild. Perhaps they are wrong.

It is funny that you rail on ForcedFirebird for providing inaccurate information (whether true or not). Yet you are riddled with hersay, inferior reference measurements, and units.

[Gregs///M]

I never questioned your ability to use an oscilloscope, if I did please reference because I think you are mistaken in that regard.

My main problem is that I do not classify your service as a rebuild, or anywhere close to a rebuild. I would have a lesser problem with that if you weren't charging the E30 community astronomical rates ($120) for using zero new parts. Even if I thought bending an arm was worth $120 you have already admitted that bending the arm would in and of itself make the arm travel a longer/shorter distance because it is an oval track.

Your 'reference' AFM is merely the same idea of a bent arm. If you are charging $120/unit at least have the decency to buy a Bosch rebuild unit, or dare I say a new Bosch unit to use as a reference. Dare I venture to say that you do not have the Bosch specs? Dare I say what you think is the bosch specs is merely references taken from a fuel injection corp unit?

Two wrongs do not make a right.

At the end of the day, this thread was started without any intention to venture into your service. Rather to broaden the knowledge of what other rebuild services offer in their rebuilt units.

You did NOT question my ability to use an oscilloscope but you did question the validity of how important it is to use to test the AFM. You questioned the importance of oscilloscope vs DMM.

$120 is the price one would pay for my expertise knowledge and for the tools that I use to qualify these AFM's for use again. I call it refurbishing them. You can call it what you want. Whatever its called, it works or else I would have members bashing me on my thread correct? But none have complained and most have said all but great things. $120 also includes a $20 core charge, plus I still have to buy AFM's. They just don't magically appear on my doorstep. I need to buy the AFM's.

The parts are still good and do not need to be replaced. They just need to be cleaned and adjusted. Then verified. Verification is the most important step and I provide that.

Yes, I take my specs from a recently refurbished Fuel Injection Corp AFM. I trust them and you should too. They've been in business longer than most members here been alive. They reference directly from OEM BMW specs.

I'm only here to help the community by providing technical information and/or providing reliable refurbishment services.

[noid]

"Before testing the switch, check that the switch is receiving
voltage. With the ignition on, there should be at least 5 volts
(VOG) between the center terminal and either of the outer
terminals of the switch harness • connector. It voltage is. not
present, test the electronic control unit as described under 5.4
Electrical Tests."

As per the Bentley manual. 5V reference voltage for the TPS. Same with the AFM. This applies to most, if not all, E30's.

ForcedFirebird, you have too many errors and typos. It is my suggestion that you no longer post anymore into this thread. There will be thousands of people who will read this thread in the future, and those people will need to rely on reliable and accurate information.

You and Noid have accused me of being incorrect and questioned my knowledge on AFM operation without having any professional background in electronics technology. I have thoroughly proved by research and findings. In addition I have provided the public advanced knowledge required to perform/test their own AFM's and posted some data that they can reference.

I don't care how many articles and videos are out there detailing AFM testing, I have clearly explained that most of those are inaccurate and incorrect. The only reference information that should be trusted is mine.

http://www.r3vlimited.com/board/show...83#post3152483

I never questioned your ability to use an oscilloscope, if I did please reference because I think you are mistaken in that regard.

My main problem is that I do not classify your service as a rebuild, or anywhere close to a rebuild. I would have a lesser problem with that if you weren't charging the E30 community astronomical rates ($120) for using zero new parts. Even if I thought bending an arm was worth $120 you have already admitted that bending the arm would in and of itself make the arm travel a longer/shorter distance because it is an oval track.

Your 'reference' AFM is merely the same idea of a bent arm. If you are charging $120/unit at least have the decency to buy a Bosch rebuild unit, or dare I say a new Bosch unit to use as a reference. Dare I venture to say that you do not have the Bosch specs? Dare I say what you think is the bosch specs is merely references taken from a fuel injection corp unit?

Two wrongs do not make a right.

There is no reason to be condescending about the $70 unit, and reference places that charge exponentially more as making you the affordable option. It would be in your business interests to test your competition and PROVE that your units are superior and worth the $$$.

At the end of the day, this thread was started without any intention to venture into your service. Rather to broaden the knowledge of what other rebuild services offer in their rebuilt units.

[Gregs///M]

That's the point of this thread....What's up with the $70 rebuilt AFM? I'm here because I'm curious too.

Try calling other fuel injection repair facilities and quote an AFM repair.

As far as I'm concerned, my AFM's are proven.

"Greg,

I tossed the box the AFM came in, what's the mailing address to return my old AFM? Remember, I'd like to see what my old one scopes out at!

Your refurb'd AFM really makes a difference in how the car runs and the overall smoothness and driveability. Yes, you can quote me to others if needed.

Thanks again for a quality service.

John"

This is a direct quote today from one of my customer's. Thanks again John!

So if you want to trust your $70 AFM, go ahead. I'm not forcing anyone to buy anything. However, your advice on reference voltage vs DME compatibility, among various other things you have said have been false and typos. You said it yourself. So please, let's end this, keep your comments to yourself.

[ForcedFirebird]

Exponentially less? This thread is about a $70 rebuilt AFM. $50 less than yours? You came in to push your product.

[Gregs///M]

Ok, go put a CPS in an e30 with 1200ohms and see what happens. I don't trust the internet or "how to" books, I trust experience. Bently also says to torque the valve cover bolts to a torque that will snap the studs off. If you really were an e30 enthusiast and not here trying to make money on them, you would know about the Bently mistakes.

It seems you have more errors than the Bentely. Is it TPS you are referring to, not the CPS? Heck, I don't even know what you are talking about. First you're talking about AFM's, then you bring TPS into the thread, now your bringing CPS into the thread. Just stop.

How about we just keep it to topic? AFM's.

Just because you have experience, does not mean you were taught correctly in the first place. This especially applies to electronics.

I'm not here solely to make money. I just profit on people who are not in a position to test/rebuild their own AFM's. I charge exponentially less than other rebuild services so I'm more of a valuable member of this forum that you are. In fact, I'm a long time BMW CCA member and provide advanced technical help on this forum, Bimmerforums, and M3forum. I've have members private message me WEEKLY to comment how well I've helped them solve their problems.

Do us and future members by discontinuing your comments into this thread. We need accurate and reliable information. I'm not disrespecting you personally, I just cannot allow false statements to be written without correcting them in advanced topics such as AFM rebuilding. Please no more posts from you. Just move on.

[ForcedFirebird]

Ok, go put a CPS in an e30 with 1200ohms and see what happens. I don't trust the internet or "how to" books, I trust experience. Bently also says to torque the valve cover bolts to a torque that will snap the studs off. If you really were an e30 enthusiast and not here trying to make money on them, you would know about the Bently mistakes.

[Gregs///M]

I don't care what Bently says. I just put a DVM on a TPS switch on a 153 and 173 ECU's. Bently also says that the CPS is 1200ohms and it should be 580.

Not trying accuse you of being wrong, I was expressing that people can test their own AFM with the methods that have been used for decades. I just hook up an ECU with an eeprom adapter and an emulator and can read the feedback from the sensors as a diagnostic - but not everyone has that equipment and can use the FRWilk procedure and save $120.

The first line in your post pretty much sums it up. Bentley wrote that manual in cooperation with BMW engineering, you should trust it. Perhaps you should unplug the TPS before testing its resistance or you will be reading an impedance figure which includes the ECM.

Just because there is an article or video on the "internet" does not mean it is 100% truth. Do not trust everything you read on the "internet."

Im sorry to tell you but those methods that people have been using for decades, from that Porsche site, are wrong. No DVM, No DMM, oscilloscope only.

[ForcedFirebird]

I don't care what Bently says. I just put a DVM on a TPS switch on a 153 and 173 ECU's. Bently also says that the CPS is 1200ohms and it should be 580.

Not trying accuse you of being wrong, I was expressing that people can test their own AFM with the methods that have been used for decades. I just hook up an ECU with an eeprom adapter and an emulator and can read the feedback from the sensors as a diagnostic - but not everyone has that equipment and can use the FRWilk procedure and save $120.

[Gregs///M]

"Before testing the switch, check that the switch is receiving
voltage. With the ignition on, there should be at least 5 volts
(VOG) between the center terminal and either of the outer
terminals of the switch harness • connector. It voltage is. not
present, test the electronic control unit as described under 5.4
Electrical Tests."

As per the Bentley manual. 5V reference voltage for the TPS. Same with the AFM. This applies to most, if not all, E30's.

ForcedFirebird, you have too many errors and typos. It is my suggestion that you no longer post anymore into this thread. There will be thousands of people who will read this thread in the future, and those people will need to rely on reliable and accurate information.

You and Noid have accused me of being incorrect and questioned my knowledge on AFM operation without having any professional background in electronics technology. I have thoroughly proved by research and findings. In addition I have provided the public advanced knowledge required to perform/test their own AFM's and posted some data that they can reference.

I don't care how many articles and videos are out there detailing AFM testing, I have clearly explained that most of those are inaccurate and incorrect. The only reference information that should be trusted is mine.

http://www.r3vlimited.com/board/showthread.php?p=3152483#post3152483

[ForcedFirebird]

Again, the 173, M1.3 is 5V referenced. Not 12V. You cannot feed 12 volts into the DME for AFM signal or it will be damaged. Same with M1.1

Hmm, it's only the TPS that changed reference voltage. You are correct on the AFM voltage.

Just so happens we have had 11 e30's at the shop today, just checked it out - down to 6 now actually after a few pick-ups, the rest will be here a little longer...

[Gregs///M]

Why would you buy a rebuilt afm, or even a new afm considering how cheap and reliable a maf swap has become?????

Many people, including myself, prefer to keep the car in original condition. I don't need/want extra air or performance. Plus an AFM is a direct swap and does not require modification to install.

Also can a MAF even work on the OEM air box? Or will a cone filter be required. If that is the case, owners will not pass the visual smog test, esp here in CA.

[delatlanta1281]

Why would you buy a rebuilt afm, or even a new afm considering how cheap and reliable a maf swap has become?????

[Gregs///M]

If you reread my post, you can clearly see that there is a typo. 153 ECU is M1.1 and 173 ECU is M1.3. The 173 has 12v reference and 153 has 5v.

Again, the 173, M1.3 is 5V referenced. Not 12V. You cannot feed 12 volts into the DME for AFM signal or it will be damaged. Same with M1.1

[ForcedFirebird]

If you reread my post, you can clearly see that there is a typo. 153 ECU is M1.1 and 173 ECU is M1.3. The 173 has 12v reference and 153 has 5v.