Cams, Air Flow, Chips, General Pointers

[llll1l1ll]

Hey all,

It's been probably well over a year and a half since I've posted on r3v. The last time I posted was likely when I was trying to sell my E30. I have been driving an E46 ZHP for some time now; however, with a good job and a house, I'm ready to get back in to an E30. I really miss my old E30. The ZHP is great, but it's not an E30.

Anyway, it'll be a while (a year or so) before I even start to think about buying an E30. I'm looking to get one that's not in all that great of shape. I have plans, you see...

I was thinking about getting a 325i and basically redoing the engine a bit. I wanted to put on a cam, a chip and get some good flow through the engine with a nice header and intake setup. I'm kinda just wondering if that all would work together.

It's been a while since I've done engine tuning, but I have a good feel for the basics. I'm just not sure if I would need to build a stroker motor in order to take advantage of a more aggressive cam and computer tune, or if I could just sneak by without a stroker.

I was reading some other threads and it seems maybe a 288 is too aggressive and I should just stick to a 272(?) unless I wanna go tracking (I might). With the more aggressive cam and possibly a redone exhaust system, would I now need to bump up the fuel delivery and get a set of higher flow injectors?

Basically, I'm just sort of snooping around and getting some information on what I would need so I can start to save for what I really want. I have a house and access to a super nice garage with a ton of tools (working on a military base is great!), so I would have plenty of room and time to screw around.

Anyway, I'll check back here and there - I'm really busy moving and planning a wedding and stuff. However, thanks to the gubmint shutdown I have no job until they can figure it out. So maybe I'll check back sooner rather than later...

[essi1553]

Well I have little experience, but i've done a lot of research and from what I've come up with an Ideal street setup which would also be cost effective, and some things changed for piece of mind would be:

- 272 Cam (288 or bigger recommend upgraded valvetrain, and will cause a rough idle and other problems in areas of varying temperatures mostly at startup)
- Mark D chip (apparently best of there)
- M50 green top injectors mainly because of better fuel delivery through pintle redesign, it wouldn't hurt to update the factory injectors. (I think they are 17# injectors, not sure if you need to change the FPR with those though)
- Header, unless you want to spend big money, go ebay and be willing to deal with fitment issues (Only reason I consider this route is easier access to the damn exhaust manifold nuts...

I know very little about anything stroker really, but there are many threads out there, and if you really just want that much more power why wouldn't you consider m5X/s5x swap?

Truth be told I think all of these upgrades would just make the car more fun to drive but not aggressive in street terms. Meaning you'll still have to battle that minivan merging onto the highway unless you're balls deep into third with your foot to the floor.

[digger]

if you want to run a big fuck off cam you need to up the CR otherwise all you do is compromise the driveability for a modest top end improvement

what is the budget?

[llll1l1ll]

Right now, I was thinking around $5-7-ish. The thing is, the car doesn't need to look pretty. PS What is CR? Are you talking about crank or the displacement (in other words, are you talking about upping the size of the engine itself?)

Infos...

I know very little about anything stroker really, but there are many threads out there, and if you really just want that much more power why wouldn't you consider m5X/s5x swap?

Truth be told I think all of these upgrades would just make the car more fun to drive but not aggressive in street terms. Meaning you'll still have to battle that minivan merging onto the highway unless you're balls deep into third with your foot to the floor.

I'm not looking for something to blow my butt away. BUT I do want something fun to drive. I have considered the S5x swaps (especially if I could snag an S52). However, I'm working with a smaller budget to start with, so with all the rest I want to do, an S swap may not be the best to start off with.

I could change my mind though... :D I just would like something fun and peppy to drive on the weekends. I thought building up the engine a little would help that.

[SmokeE30]

Well no matter what you do your not gonna make much power with an naturally asperated m20. So if you want something with power I wouldn't sink a bunch of money into a m20 build unless you wanna boost it besides that a 24v swap will be better bang for the buck. It really depends on goals and budget though. There are a million possible combos to put together give use a few more insights into what you want out of the car when finished and we can point you in the right direction

[digger]

Right now, I was thinking around $5-7-ish. The thing is, the car doesn't need to look pretty. PS What is CR? Are you talking about crank or the displacement (in other words, are you talking about upping the size of the engine itself?)



I'm not looking for something to blow my butt away. BUT I do want something fun to drive. I have considered the S5x swaps (especially if I could snag an S52). However, I'm working with a smaller budget to start with, so with all the rest I want to do, an S swap may not be the best to start off with.

I could change my mind though... :D I just would like something fun and peppy to drive on the weekends. I thought building up the engine a little would help that.

compression ratio not displacement.

http://www.amazon.com/David-Vizards-...ref=pd_sim_b_1

buy this and read it before doing anything

[essi1553]

The problem with the e30 seems to be unless you drop a ton of money into the engine to change and recalibrate everything you won't make much more power. I'd IMAGINE/ASSUME at best your looking at 220 BHP with an investment of easily $5k+ (non-turbo).

An s52 can be bought and installed for about 5k+ (less or more depending where you go) And I think the HP numbers start at 240 with room to grow. If you just want a reliable fun daily driver car, id invest in many suspension upgrades, and a mild engine work-over rebuild. (bigger cam, chip, exhaust, intake, injectors, etc) and call it a day.

The car is more fun when its sideways anyways... :)

[llll1l1ll]

Good insight here - thanks! I think I'll start checking out the threads on S52 builds and the like.

Anyway, to give y'all some more information on what direction I'm headed: I want to just have something that's fun to drive on the weekends. I'm moving back to MD so I can register the car as historic which saves on a ton on insurance. I just can't drive it all the time - and I wouldn't want to. That's what my ZHP is for. The E30 won't need to have super ice cold a/c (although it's a plus) nor would it need many creature comforts. I'm not trying to make a track rat since I already have too many hobbies.

I'd plan on lowering it with H&Rs or Eibachs or something but nothing slammed or anything like that. I'd probably get different wheels that would likely be era-specific or just not much larger than 16s - and that's pushing it. I'd redo the shifter so the bushings aren't all sloppy and I'd probably do a SSK while I'm in there.

I think the last thing I'd work on would be the interior.

However, if I'm about to sink $5K into an M20 where I could maybe source an S52 for slightly less or the same, I would consider getting and sprucing up the S52 a bit.

This all started because I finally bought a house and can have some room to work. Plus, with pay raises in the future, I'll have enough to get a second car. I wanted to get an E46 M3 but that's just too much money to have on the side. So I thought about an E36 M3 and I thought that would be fun, but then I remembered how much I really loved my E30 and how I regret selling it and should have held on to it. So, I want to go that route and just sort of build it up and make it my own.

compression ratio not displacement.

http://www.amazon.com/David-Vizards-...ref=pd_sim_b_1

buy this and read it before doing anything

Thanks - I'll check this out!

[nando]

sounds like you know what you want - there's nothing really wrong with building up an M20. they have a lot of untapped potential - if you're willing to invest into it, it'll pay off. M20s sound different than the 24v motors (better, IMO), and are also a bit lighter. ironically, a properly built M20 will rev higher than any of the base 24v motors will.

the biggest difference between a slapped together 2.7i with some random cam, and a motor like digger's (or e21jps's 300hp monster), is the headwork - that's where you'd want to concentrate your resources. it also means taking a lot of time reading to figure out what you need to do, and sending the head off to somebody who knows how to increase flow without losing port velocity.

nothing wrong with an S52 swap either, it's a bread and butter motor. it all comes down to what do you want to invest, and what do you want out of the car?

and BTW, for the most part - if you want to build a serious M20, just forget about chips. at the very minimum, you'd want to flash your own custom chip for the stock engine computer, but preferably you'd run something else entirely. Fortunately the E30 electronics are pretty primitive, so you don't have to deal with all the headaches of a standalone swap like a lot of the later cars do (OBD2, CAN, etc). No off the shelf chip is going to cut it.

[llll1l1ll]

Thanks for that little bit of advice, there!

I did some more reading/Googling/searching last night (I'm in the middle of a move), and I thought that doing an M30 swap might be right up my alley. Realistically, and based on what I've read, building an M20 in my budget might only yield me the power the M30 already has. I figure if I swap an M30, I can definitely refresh the motor before it's installed, add some extra intake/exhaust work, and maybe toss a chip in. It's a little bit of extra work but I've read a couple threads about it and it doesn't sound too bad. Plus, it's in the budget.

I did do some reading on Ireland Engineering's stroker kit. It doesn't sound all that more expensive than what I had planned; however, it does sound super involved. Not that it's a problem, but it's just something to consider. Frankly, I'd enjoy the challenge.

For what it's worth, I just really like the sound of the M20. It's all raspy and mechanical and fun. I'll have to check out some vids of the M30, but I think I would like it, too.

It kind of just boils down to me wanting to do something that's my own work and be proud of it. Think of Tim Allen in Home Improvement when he keeps building up hot rods. It would just be nice to drive something I created, so to speak. Building a motor up would be the ultimate in this aspect since my sweat and blood is what makes the motor purr.