Problem after installing 17# injectors

[jareddavidj]

I installed 17# injectors with a chip all from mpowerful about a week ago. When I started it up, it was really rough. I drove it around the block to see how if it would sort itself out. Any time I gave it power it's sent white smoke out of the back. It still felt really rough and also died when I pulled into my driveway. I realized I broke the brown coolant temp sensor on the thermostat and replaced that today. When I started it up, it idles somewhat nicely, but still something a little off and also white smoke comes out of the exhaust when I rev it. I didn't take it for a test drive this time just in case I would hurt something. There aren't any leaks I can see, I also didn't put those metal clips that hold the injector to the fuel rail back on because I couldn't get them to go on right and the injector seemed to be seated right. I also replaced the fuel filter at the same time. Anybody have any experience with this?


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[Cabriolet]

what year and type of engine do you have?
what type of chip?
and was it made to match the code on your DME? IE 173 does not work with a 153
also if you did not put those clips on, you installed the injectors wrong.

[jlevie]

I have to shake my head and wonder how anyone that actually understands an M20B25 engine and it's management system would do this. The only reason for doing so would be pretty extensive engine/intake/exhaust work (or FI) that materially increases mass flow through the engine. In which case the OE DME really doesn't cut it. You need a fully tunable standalone system like a MegaSquirt. The stock injectors are more than enough for an engine in the stock configuration, even when chipped

My advice would be to revert to the OE injectors, after having them professionally cleaned, rebuilt, and flow tested. Then, if you wish, toss in a Conforti chip. That is as good as it is going to get.

[Wschnitz]

Yea I don't get why people keep thinking different injectors = more hp, it just means your wasting more fuel.

[jareddavidj]

what year and type of engine do you have?
what type of chip?
and was it made to match the code on your DME? IE 173 does not work with a 153
also if you did not put those clips on, you installed the injectors wrong.

1990 m20b25 with 173 dme, the chip is put together by mpowerful, I contacted him and he gave me some advice, simply disconnected the battery and reconnected to reset the system in case the ecu was still being told to run rich and that seemed to fix the problem

[jareddavidj]

I have to shake my head and wonder how anyone that actually understands an M20B25 engine and it's management system would do this. The only reason for doing so would be pretty extensive engine/intake/exhaust work (or FI) that materially increases mass flow through the engine. In which case the OE DME really doesn't cut it. You need a fully tunable standalone system like a MegaSquirt. The stock injectors are more than enough for an engine in the stock configuration, even when chipped

My advice would be to revert to the OE injectors, after having them professionally cleaned, rebuilt, and flow tested. Then, if you wish, toss in a Conforti chip. That is as good as it is going to get.

I'm no expert at engine and fuel management systems by any means. But I have heard good things about these 17 lbers with the chip, I'm gonna give it a shot and if I dont like it I can always switch back. Your argument makes sense to me. Thanks for your input

[jareddavidj]

Yea I don't get why people keep thinking different injectors = more hp, it just means your wasting more fuel.

I understand that, I'm giving them a shot. I don't really expect more horsepower, I was just hoping for a smoother running car. And since my injectors were super loud, I was looking for an upgrade.

[TurboJake]

Yea I don't get why people keep thinking different injectors = more hp, it just means your wasting more fuel.

Worked great for me. Better power. Better mileage. smooth idle. Better response. Better everything, really.

Except, I didn't go with 17lbs. I went with 14lb @ 3 BAR gen III's from a 1999 ford/lincoln/mercury 4.6l for cheaper than rebuilt stockers.

;)

Part numbers:
Bosch: 280155857
Motorcraft: XW7E-A5B

[Northern]

E36 "17lb" injectors are rated at 3.5bar, whereas they're running at 3bar in the e30. They aren't much larger than stock (I think it ends up being around 7% more)

I ended up getting a rebuilt set of them for the Design II spray pattern. Maybe squeeze another MPG out, but probably not. Runs the same otherwise for me. No chip.

[rmdashrf]

I got the same set from mpowerful, worked perfectly. Smoothed out my idle and more eager to pull in upper rev range. Mileage is still the same.

[mpowerful]

If you look at the flow pattern between the gen1 and gen3 injectors then you will see why they are advantageous. They are simply more effecient regardless of size. The reason i sell 17lbers is because why not. Cores are same price and so are rebuild parts and time. The larger injector when tuned for properly will not make any difference in driveability over stock sizing (up to a point). I ran gen three 19lbers on a stock motor for 20k miles with proper tune. I avged 20mpg city, 26-28 hwy and the car was definitely strong granted a large part of that strength was from much more aggressive ignition and fueling.

Anyway glad your car is running nicely now!

Edit: my car def went up in economy but again there are a lot of factors to that on a case by case basis.

[mpowerful]

Oh and Jlevie; you may have some wise and sage advice and no one will argue that, but you are the definition of a Luddite.

[digger]

I’m with Jlevie, just use stock flow rate units particularly if you don’t have full control over the ECU. You aren’t gaining anything that will be measurable except replacing a worn out part with a new one and the inherent benefit that come from doing this.

if you want to know if the modern injectors have superior flow pattern and atomisation for the M20 then you need to find an engine dyno and do carefully controlled tests where you look at BSFC etc. different engines want different fuel preparation dependent on where the injector is located, angle with respect to port, local mixture motion and a whole bunch of other factors that vary engine to engine. without proper testing it is just guessing.....

if higher flowing injectors are cheaper and more plentiful these will still work but dont go thinking you are any better off than the proper flowing units

[mpowerful]

Which type of 24lb injectors are you using on your stroker?

[digger]

Which type of 24lb injectors are you using on your stroker?

im using 30lb im pretty sure it is these

http://www.fiveomotorsport.com/30lb-0280155759-red-devil-bosch

was using 24lb similar to this

http://www.fiveomotorsport.com/24lb-bosch-fuel-injector-0280150947-blue-top