Guestimates...

[LJ851]

I assume a standalone will be capable of handling such a task, as it's gonna probably have to be able to adjust cam timing on the fly to cope with changing mixtures of e85.

Nothing is going to change M20 cam timing on the fly.

That being said, different ignition and fuel tables (an alternate map) should do the trick.

[digger]

So I thought I'd continue posting here for a little as decisions develop and I have new ideas.

After reading some of the posts above, I did a little research. I might go ahead and add the extra effort into having the car rigged to adjust itself to fuel mixture so I can run pump gas and e85 in mixture.

Nothing in the course of the build has changed, all that you see above will be done. I honestly saw a MCM video on thier 11 second Subaru RS Wagon build about doing this with e85, and kinda just decided that well, if it's actually possible, and the engine can take it, why not just do the little extra bit to make the car capable of running e85 of I want it to, and then just add 93 on top of it when I don't? I still want it running over 300 wheel on pump gas, but why not add the potential for more power over top of that?

I assume a standalone will be capable of handling such a task, as it's gonna probably have to be able to adjust cam timing on the fly to cope with changing mixtures of e85.

This is just a whimsical thought. I kinda do wanna do this, but its probably gonna be one of those things where as long as its relatively easy to accomplish with a few additions and extra tuning once that bridge is ready to cross.

there are certainly ECU than can run flex fuel E85 and pump and anywhere in between. they will adjust fuel and ignition timing (i assume that is what you meant rather than cam timing)

[Sykohtic]

there are certainly ECU than can run flex fuel E85 and pump and anywhere in between. they will adjust fuel and ignition timing (i assume that is what you meant rather than cam timing)

Yeah this is what I meant. Sorry for the misuse of terminology. Haha too much coffee at too late at night I guess.

This idea in mind, do you guys think there's a specific standalone system that you have in mind for this application? It has to be able to handle the e85 blending and alpha N for the TPS on the ITB system. There's a system that Racehead sells thats like a little over a grand and they're the company that makes the ITBs. I've been looking heavily at that (I'll link it when I get to my apartment and onto my actual laptop) but I know a lot of people here go Megasquirt, or so it seems. I've also heard Megasquirt can likely be had a bit cheaper than the standalone kit Racehead sells so there's that. If there's a good system you guys know of that I'm not listing please tell me about it/link it. I know this choice can also dictate where I have to go to get the car tuned.

[LJ851]

Yeah this is what I meant. Sorry for the misuse of terminology. Haha too much coffee at too late at night I guess.

This idea in mind, do you guys think there's a specific standalone system that you have in mind for this application? It has to be able to handle the e85 blending and alpha N for the TPS on the ITB system. There's a system that Racehead sells thats like a little over a grand and they're the company that makes the ITBs. I've been looking heavily at that (I'll link it when I get to my apartment and onto my actual laptop) but I know a lot of people here go Megasquirt, or so it seems. I've also heard Megasquirt can likely be had a bit cheaper than the standalone kit Racehead sells so there's that. If there's a good system you guys know of that I'm not listing please tell me about it/link it. I know this choice can also dictate where I have to go to get the car tuned.

If you are not going to tune your own car, i would highly recommend you find the tuner you want to use and follow their advice on what ecu to use. Tuning is a large piece of this puzzle you are building here and will have a big impact on your happiness (or not) at the end.

Most people that choose megasquirt do so because it is the least expensive way to go standalone.

[Sykohtic]

If you are not going to tune your own car, i would highly recommend you find the tuner you want to use and follow their advice on what ecu to use. Tuning is a large piece of this puzzle you are building here and will have a big impact on your happiness (or not) at the end.

Most people that choose megasquirt do so because it is the least expensive way to go standalone.

http://www.racehead.com.au/?wpsc-product=ecumasters-emu

^The standalone Racehead sells^

That makes sense though. I'll make that one of my questions when I go into check out the shops I look into.

[digger]

If you are not going to tune your own car, i would highly recommend you find the tuner you want to use and follow their advice on what ecu to use.

this

[Sykohtic]

So I haven't had anything to update with until today, but I think I may have found the appropriate shop for my build.

I looked yesterday at The Performance Factory/3SX Perfomance and while I was impressed with them and they were indeed very knowledgeable and great guys, I checked at another spot and think I've found the proper place.

I went in and talked to the guys at 42 Autosports in Concord, North Carolina today. They were fantastic. They took me back, showed me around the shop, their current projects and all (including their victorious One Lap of America R-35 GTR). The guy showing me around is actually working on putting a supercharged S5x in his own E30. Him and the others I spoke to all seem to have a good amount of experience with E30's and BMWs in general, if short of actually owning one. They also seemed to know of other E30's in the area.

I was asked many of the appropriate questions: What do you have? What are you thinking about doing? What purpose will it be serving? What are the power goals? etc.

As I told him, he took proper notes, wrote everything down, and seemed very interested in the build. Even was very understanding of my desire to stay M20 and stay NA. Also, so you guys know, when we talked about the standalone, I told him I was waiting to find a builder and someone to do the work and have them pick one out to suit the task. He said that was very smart and the right way to do things, so thank you for the tip. He went on to recommend a Haltech or a Motech system.

The guys I met were all great guys, and actually stood around and had a long conversation with me about the car and what was possible, different options for the car, etc. I've scheduled and appointment with them next Thursday where I'll actually be bringing the car in for them to examine and look over free of charge so that we can sit down and figure out a plan for the car and figure out a proper budget.

While I appreciate the time given to me by Performance Factory to no end (and their 900hp Viper ACR is impressive indeed), it speaks a lot to have several fully built racecars on the showroom floor, and when I get taken back into the shop and shown a SCed BMW engine on the stand.

[digger]

motec is overkill

[Sykohtic]

motec is overkill

Why do you say so? Just wondering. The guys showed me a Motec unit that one of them was about to put in his own car. I was really impressed with the fact that it was about the size of a extra small tablet and for the majority not much more thick. That and it was weather proofed.

Thought I'd add: they were supportive of the idea of a monster of a NA M20, but also seemed interested in doing am S54 swap as another option... I'm clinging hard to my M20, and the glorious sounds it could make if I go the M20 route like I want. Not to mention it would look pretty badass sitting in the bay. Versus an S54... power is much easier to come by... It instantly gives me my power goals... But I'm not sure id like the sounds... Partly is, id likely have to throw a super expensive exhaust system on it to make it sound like I want... Then the engine... Its just... Ugly in the E30 bay... Thats my opinion. Thered have to be some custom additions done to make me happy with the look of that in the front of my car. Partly because i hate the ITBs being almost hidden under that massive airbox....

[digger]

just they are pretty exxy by the time you get it all setup, i assume you need only basic functions and i doubt you would feel any difference compared to a lower budget ECU

Why do you say so? Just wondering. The guys showed me a Motec unit that one of them was about to put in his own car. I was really impressed with the fact that it was about the size of a extra small tablet and for the majority not much more thick. That and it was weather proofed.

Thought I'd add: they were supportive of the idea of a monster of a NA M20, but also seemed interested in doing am S54 swap as another option... I'm clinging hard to my M20, and the glorious sounds it could make if I go the M20 route like I want. Not to mention it would look pretty badass sitting in the bay. Versus an S54... power is much easier to come by... It instantly gives me my power goals... But I'm not sure id like the sounds... Partly is, id likely have to throw a super expensive exhaust system on it to make it sound like I want... Then the engine... Its just... Ugly in the E30 bay... Thats my opinion. Thered have to be some custom additions done to make me happy with the look of that in the front of my car. Partly because i hate the ITBs being almost hidden under that massive airbox....

[Sykohtic]

just they are pretty exxy by the time you get it all setup, i assume you need only basic functions and i doubt you would feel any difference compared to a lower budget ECU

Ahh I understand. I'll see what they say next Thursday about it then and get back to the thread about the decision.

[Sykohtic]

Okay, so IF I can manage it, the appointment at 42 Autosports is still Thursday afternoon, but I thought I'd display out the options I think are currently on the table and get some feedback. I'd like to go in with some extra ideas pinned down outside of the primary. I have 3 options thought out at the moment.

Option 1: The NA All Day

Type: Naturally aspirated M20 build
Goal: Build a M20 to squeeze as much naturally aspirated power out of it as possible

-Racehead ITB Kit w/custom airbox
-IE 3.0L Stoker Kit
-304 degree cam
-IE Long tubes w/ full custom catless exhaust and custom high flow X-pipe to a dual muffler system at the rear
-Port and polished head
-HD Rockers
-Oversized Intake Valves
-Performance Standalone ECU and tuning with flex fuel capabilities
-MAYBE uprated fuel injectors if I need them

Option 2: Focke-Wulf Wurger
Type: Supercharged M20 build
Goal: Supercharge a heavily built M20, make gobs of torque and hp (More power than the NA build)

-IE 2.9L Stroker Kit (More compression with the SC)
-304 Degree Cam
-IE Long tubes w/ full custom catless exhaust and custom high flow X-pipe to a dual muffler system at the rear
-Port and polished head
-HD Rockers
-Oversized Intake Valves
-Performance Standalone ECU and tuning with flex fuel capabilities
-Uprated Fuel Injectors
-Supercharger, Roots type (Probably Eaton)
-FM Intercooler
-Custom plenum
-BOV (No idea which one to go with or if it really matters as long as I get a good brand)
-Upsized TB if needed...

Option 3: S-Fifty-Moar
Type: S54 swap
Goal: Just S54 swap with light mods

-S54 engine
-Headers w/ custom dual muffler system
-Shield the intake/CAI
-Standalone w/ custom tuning
-Cams, maybe. Not sure...

As it stands, S50/S52 is still off the table. Turbo is off the table. I'm attached to my M20. The S54 is here because S-freaking-fifty-four, that is all. Its more rare than the E36 M3 swap. That's all there is to it really...

[ForcedFirebird]

You might just want to start with a turbo on your m20. Best bang for the buck and with a junkyard motor, you can reach well over 400whp.

[digger]

If you want all out N/A M20 up the comp to run E85/flex and a bigger cam.

[ForcedFirebird]

If you want all out N/A M20 up the comp to run E85/flex and a bigger cam.

Unless he goes with huge compression gains, premium fuel is good enough, and you don't have to worry about delivering 30% or so more fuel - and depending location e85 isn't readily available everywhere here in the states.