M20 Stroker FAQ for newbs such as myself?

[moatilliatta]

i dunno really.. i just think its cool to rev that high i guess. just one of those meaningless goals.

[winstontj]

If you are worried about rockers talk to IE and ask Jeff to make you up some billet rockers. They'll run you like $50 each ($600) but it'll be worth it. Why do you want to rev 8K anyway? Why not just build a higher comp motor and focus on a more efficient CC and fuel delivery. If you do a lot of comb chamber work you'll get the power without going crazy on the revvs (IMO).

I'll let you know in a little bit when I start putting together my stroker motor!

[moatilliatta]

thats a nice idea. i have no idea what the difference is though... i "think" ive seen 2 types of rockers on a m20... ones that looked stamped and ones that looked casted. I could be wrong though and the stamped ones could of been of another car... If you was to heat treat them it can make them too brittle, thats why I was thinking the billet aluminum ones were nice... esp for 900$:curse:

[mops]

aparently, there's this 250hp na m20 here in NZ. it runs 45 sidedrafts, i think around 300 cam with electronically mapped ignition, eta bottom end and such. Aswell I heard to make the rockers last you need to grind all sharp edges round and then xray all the rockers, make sure they dont have internal cracks and then heat treat them and they will 'aparently' handle 8krpm all day long.

just what i've read there and there.... doesnt seem unreasonable at all...

I'd aswell investigate m30 rockers... they look beefier than m20 ones, i'm not sure what would be involved to make them run on m20...

[moatilliatta]

I'll post some pics when I open up an internet photo hosting account. Haven't even posted pics of my car yet!

I know that if you want to run carbs you want to run tripple 40DCOE webers or 3x 45DCOE's. Better than carbs I'd run an EFI ITB setup because you could make it street legal and pass emissions if you tuned it down with your o2, etc. Look at www.jenvey.com TWM, Dbilias (little known but a 2002 guy and VERY GOOD IMO), etc. and get a fuel injected setup. More power, better on gas, no smell, did I say more power?

Worst case you can take an m20 manifold and modd it to work with a carbureted BMW motorcycle (like a 70's bike) or a suzuki GSXR EFI TB. Take a look here: http://www.bmw2002faq.com/component/...opic/t,279700/

I started that thread a LONG time ago and someone just brought it up again yesterday. It's got a lot of M10 info but all you need is to do an m10 x 1.5 right? Look at the actual threads & the links in the threads - there are links to other 2002faq & places like e30tech, etc.

Good luck & post pics & sound clips if you do it... I'll be at that car next weekend and I'll take a little vid of it revving and put up a link.

well im finding side drafts hard to come by so i might make a downdraft set up... im not to worried about emissions. i was looking at the 45's. i want my car to have no computer or nothing. just a distributor and carbs. i got a 323 head and distributor. and know of a 320 intake that has the 4 barrel set up but the runners on that are super tiny.... im gunna slap that on my eta bottom end. just to expriment and see what kind of number is can make with a head work hot cam and carbs... i herd of this guy having a 328cam, i was like woah. the most ive herd about is a 309. gunna try and get new rockers and shop ping them. and try and get 8000rpm out of them, w the td crank. its a slow work in progress. im in no rush just doing the old trial and error method...

[winstontj]

EDIT: Correction - The 2002 used to run GT3 but now is setup for ITB

[winstontj]

i looking for side drafts on my m20, if not that some itb's, know any moterbike itbs or carbs witch would work on an m20... im guessing somthing around a 43mm dia.?

you got pictures of that machine?

I'll post some pics when I open up an internet photo hosting account. Haven't even posted pics of my car yet!

I know that if you want to run carbs you want to run tripple 40DCOE webers or 3x 45DCOE's. Better than carbs I'd run an EFI ITB setup because you could make it street legal and pass emissions if you tuned it down with your o2, etc. Look at www.jenvey.com TWM, Dbilias (little known but a 2002 guy and VERY GOOD IMO), etc. and get a fuel injected setup. More power, better on gas, no smell, did I say more power?

Worst case you can take an m20 manifold and modd it to work with a carbureted BMW motorcycle (like a 70's bike) or a suzuki GSXR EFI TB. Take a look here: http://www.bmw2002faq.com/component/...opic/t,279700/

I started that thread a LONG time ago and someone just brought it up again yesterday. It's got a lot of M10 info but all you need is to do an m10 x 1.5 right? Look at the actual threads & the links in the threads - there are links to other 2002faq & places like e30tech, etc.

Good luck & post pics & sound clips if you do it... I'll be at that car next weekend and I'll take a little vid of it revving and put up a link.

[moatilliatta]

That m10 is a motor built by Kermit Upton which now runs EDIS driven by Mega Squirt II. It's got an ITB setup with barrell throttles (like slide throttles but easier to control). The guy who owns the car is a friend of mine and he has the dyno sheets to prove it. It's a FULL GT3 RACE 2002.

I'll get more details on the headers but intake is something he pulled off a Triumph back a few years ago. He runs a Warnford (i think) DCOE pattern manifold, TB's are something brittish and I'll find out. Header is a custom one off SS job, raised floor, BIG pipes and massive 4 into 1 collector. It's a cool little car and it goes like snot. It's got a Dogleg (race not rally) box, welded 3.64 diff, solid mounts & one piece driveshaft.

I looked at buying the car and turned it down for $3,500... Now three years later I'm kicking myself because I could have owned it rather than just working on it and driving it :-) My buddy is a big v-8 triumph guy so the 2002 only gets to play every once in a while.

Nothing is a secret on the car so I'll be happy to answer any questions if I know the answers. Oh it was a Mustang Dyno if that makes a difference.

i looking for side drafts on my m20, if not that some itb's, know any moterbike itbs or carbs witch would work on an m20... im guessing somthing around a 43mm dia.?

you got pictures of that machine?

[Addissimo]

I don't know really. it's the first motor I've completely built myself.. just second guessing myself. nothing is wrong with it though, runs very smoothly, so it might last a long time. but honestly, I doubt I will ever put 100k miles on it anyway.

I would guess you'll have a nice long, lasting, healthy engine.

Enjoy it for 200k man.

:)

[nando]

Nando-

I'm curious why you think you're only going to get 100k miles out of your car? What do you think you did that much differently than MM would do? It seems like if you spent $7k on your motor, you would have used pretty high quality components.

-Addis

I don't know really. it's the first motor I've completely built myself.. just second guessing myself. nothing is wrong with it though, runs very smoothly, so it might last a long time. but honestly, I doubt I will ever put 100k miles on it anyway.

[Addissimo]

Nando-

I'm curious why you think you're only going to get 100k miles out of your car? What do you think you did that much differently than MM would do? It seems like if you spent $7k on your motor, you would have used pretty high quality components.

-Addis

[winstontj]

what type of headers, intake, engine management are you using?

That m10 is a motor built by Kermit Upton which now runs EDIS driven by Mega Squirt II. It's got an ITB setup with barrell throttles (like slide throttles but easier to control). The guy who owns the car is a friend of mine and he has the dyno sheets to prove it. It's a FULL GT3 RACE 2002.

I'll get more details on the headers but intake is something he pulled off a Triumph back a few years ago. He runs a Warnford (i think) DCOE pattern manifold, TB's are something brittish and I'll find out. Header is a custom one off SS job, raised floor, BIG pipes and massive 4 into 1 collector. It's a cool little car and it goes like snot. It's got a Dogleg (race not rally) box, welded 3.64 diff, solid mounts & one piece driveshaft.

I looked at buying the car and turned it down for $3,500... Now three years later I'm kicking myself because I could have owned it rather than just working on it and driving it :-) My buddy is a big v-8 triumph guy so the 2002 only gets to play every once in a while.

Nothing is a secret on the car so I'll be happy to answer any questions if I know the answers. Oh it was a Mustang Dyno if that makes a difference.

[nando]

In response to the two above quotes I totally agree with pdx 528e;556714. IMO MM has put out some HP ratings and motors that I don't totally agree with. Maybe I should just leave it as that but take this for example. An early MM m10 stroker used m30 pistons, audi 5000 rods & an s14 crank. The rod ratio was BRUTAL to say the least - it ran and how long they lasted or what power they put out I don't know but their early stuff was somewhat less than top notch IMO. It's my understanding that their HP ratings have been way overstated as well and this is the reason why many others (like IE) don't put HP numbers on their sites because it makes their products look inferior because they are truly accurate ratings rather than inflated.

while it's entirely possible that MM overstates their power #s, it really doesn't matter. My opinion is still that their piston design is superior to all the others out there available for M20 strokers. it runs cooler, converts your engine to non interference, and doesn't expand as much so you don't get piston slap and oil burning problems. Jordan's stroker using generic forged pistons burned a lot of oil (he even stated that when he got on it, a huge cloud of smoke would follow him).

you can also run much more timing advance because they run much cooler - Dave Length's old stroker, which had only 9.5:1 compression, pinged with the STOCK chip. it wasn't even useable with something like a JC. obviously you want a chip burned for your motor, but for Dave he would have needed to retard his timing. Jordan had the exact same problem with his. he ended up retarding the timing a bunch just to get it running normally. I run a bavauto chip which *increases* the timing advance over stock and it runs perfectly with my 10:1 MM pistons - who knows how much further I could tune it.

is the whole MM motor worth it? I have no idea--it would be nice to see actual dyno #s. MM is pretty conservative with their headwork, so it's hard to believe they make as much power as they claim. However, I do think the pistons are worth every penny.

[moatilliatta]

what type of headers, intake, engine management are you using?

[winstontj]

NA m10, s14 87mm crank, 92mm pistons, 11:1cr, 316 Dr. Schrick, +1mm valves on AVGAS

2313cc - 223bhp @ 6580rpm = ~96.4 hp/liter

189rwhp @ 6580rpm * 1.18 (18% loss in drivetrain) = ~223 @ flywheel