F-in M20's!! I HATE EM!

[Sean]

That's right, I went there!

I was home last month, and decided to pull my motor because I had a small leak that was driving me INSANE! I wanted to clean everything nicely and put er' back together.

Well, to start off with, while in the midst of my pull, I mis calculated usage of the engine hoist and destroyed my oil drain plug - so I need a new pan. AND, the headgasket that I thought was leaking, actually wasn't, BUT IT IS NOW!

Here's what I did, pulled the head off, cleaned everything real nice, cleaned the mating surfaces off best I could (the best I could...they weren't as nice as machined surfaces) and put the head back on using some gasketcinch recommended by a mechanic. While doing this, I found my leak that I thought was coming from the headgasket (the small seep at the front of the head) was actually coming from my crankshaft seal. Fixed that, no more leak. Put the motor back together, and now I got that fucking headgasket leak that I DIDNT have before! I AM SO PISSED!!!!! :curse:

I'm thinking of getting some metric blues and torquing them down pretty tight to see if I can stop the leak. I'm also thinkin that maybe I didn't torque down that front head bolt enough, but I'll have to check that still.

Think that'll work? I'm so pissed right now, because I basically took a fine headgasket, and broke what didn't need fixing.... I'm almost positive that once this damn leak starts, it doesn't stop without pulling the head AGAIN.

...fuck this motor.

[AlarmedBread]

Did you use a new hg when you did all this or do you have a mls?

I'm in the same boat, I started out just refreshing my head and am going to end up in the bottom end :rofl:

[Sean]

MLS? What do you mean?

I definitely used a new gasket. Did a new waterpump and belt too (of course). it sucks...suuuccckkks bad. I need to replace my pan as soon as I can, if I don't lose more than a quart in 4k though, I'll probably just live with it, because my motor should last me two more years with no maintenance at all, and by then I'll be outta school and driving a more comfortable daily driver. LOL

[e30wheelman]

uh im pretty sure you need a new head gasket EVERY TIME. silicone/sealent/whatever wont work for that . theres just too much pressure. theres nothing wrong with the m20. its a good engine. IMO its only draw back is it was designed a SOHC.

[Sean]

I used a new one....

I used a sealant on a new gasket, to make sure I avoided this...but obviously that didn't help.

I think I'll buy some metric blues and torque em down one by one to see if that alleviates the problem. only issue is, I'm not sure how I'll go about gettin oil outta the bolt holes...

[jlevie]

If you pull the head you need new gaskets and new head bolts. I only use OE gaskets and bolts as I've have mixed results with non-OE parts.

[Sean]

If you pull the head you need new gaskets and new head bolts. I only use OE gaskets and bolts as I've have mixed results with non-OE parts.

When I built the motor two years ago - I used STOCK headbolts (the damn gay stretch shit) that CANNOT be reused! I used a new STOCK headgasket. Nothing is not-stock - all OEM parts, goetze gaskets! I did the exact same thing this time. Torqued to yield both 90deg turns.

You guys have done nothing other than tell me to use new and OEM headgaskets - please, tell me something I don't know.

[Brian D]

Sean, what exactly is leaking? Oil or coolant on the outside, or are you using oil/coolant (internal leak)?

You can try tightening the bolts a little more, but it sounds like there may have been some crap on the head or block surface that is preventing the gasket from sealing. You may have to take a few deep breaths and start over.

Oh, and don't be fooled-this kind of shit happens with all types of engines. Your M20 isn't evil!

[rs4pro3]

I have always have m20 heads checked for flatness while they are off. If you loosen the headbolts in just slightly the wrong way the head will warp

[JGood]

uh im pretty sure you need a new head gasket EVERY TIME.

Some MLS gaskets are considered reusable.

[AlarmedBread]

MLS? What do you mean?

Multi-Layer Steel head gasket.

Definitely sure it's the HG and not the cam seal or rocker shaft plugs? Metric blues work pretty good though you shouldn't need to crank them any tighter than the stock bolts. I never liked that gasket 'sealer' stuff, the only thing I use is high tack for gaskets that like to move around a lot.

[ColdAccord]

fuck it, cheaper to buy an m50

[rThor432]

I dont understand why the guy would have recommended that you use sealer on a new gasket? A proper gasket doesnt need sealer at all, and using anything that could throw off the straightness of the mating surface is bad anyway.

If there is a little more sealer that in one spot than another, once the head is compressed it is the same as effectively having a warped head, just because there is that much more material there than in another spot.

Sorry, I'm just really picky about head jobs.

Also, if you hate M20's, just think about having to set up Vanos units and such. Not that there is anything terribly difficult about it, just that it is one more thing added into the equation.

[ColdAccord]

new gasket or not you're not supposed to use anything on a headgasket.

[Madhatter]

thats not quite true, products like hylomar exist for this exact purpose and many engine builders use it, in particular around water jackets and galleries.