JT's M20 Build Thread

[JehTehsus]

Annoying news, I think I figured out why there is some oil weeping from the MLS - reviewing build photos, I forgot an alignment dowel for the head!

Obviously the head needs to come off, but I think I am also going to get another gasket just to be safe on the safe side with regards to leaks and whatnot. I will stick to stock thickness for now - leaving my compression probably a hair higher than 9.75:1.

I did have a boroscope down the cylinder wells a few days ago, wasn't looking for any P to V damage specifically but I definitely didn't see any (and don't in the photos I took), so I think I am fine on that front, but won't know for absolutely certain until I actually have the head off (my earlier clearance checks all indicated I had a comfortable amount of headroom though; I suspect I got somewhat lucky and the misalignment is minor). Very glad I caught this now, though before I went stringing everything out around town. The fastest this new motor has ever spun was 6200 RPM - for about a 10th of a second (this is based on all my accumulated data logs) and generally has almost never been higher than 5k rpm at this point, with roughly 2 hours total runtime.

Probably won't happen this weekend, I doubt I will have the gasket in hand that soon, but once I do it should be a relatively painless operation... just more coolant draining (lol). At least everything on the motor is clean and easy to take apart now. I will leave it in the engine bay and just pull the head as is.

[tiger_e30]

How much oil were you getting?

[JehTehsus]

How much oil were you getting?

Almost none. Not even enough to drip, just glisten under a light/slightly pool right where the gasket meets the block. I am also pretty sure some of this was coming from the rocker arm plugs, which I also think might be leaking a touch.

The head is definitely getting oil though, everything seems well coated. And oil pressure looks good, but that is down at the pressure sensor location. Gaskets are on the way and I should be able to just leave the car in the shop a few more days while I wait for them to show up.

[JehTehsus]

So, the head is now aligned!! It looks like it was off by 1-2mm... definitely less than ideal. I am lucky it didn't result in piston to valve contact...

Overall a pretty good weekend, although I would love some feedback on the oil filter debris (posted after this for additional attachments).

So, previous to this weekend I had ~50km (probably more like 35) on the motor, plus a bit of idling time. Shop here is busy at the moment... and my buddy up island needed a hand getting his other touring going, so I decided to brave the highway up island to his place. Distance there is 225km.

The drive went well. Ran the entire way with autotune running, and other than some issues with idle control the motor seems to be doing well. Motor felt fairly good, if definitely quite un-tuned in the top end. Didn't want to spend much if any time up there until re-aligning the head.

Managed to get the head off and took a good look around. No obvious red flags. Cylinder 4 there is a small score line, which can unfortunately be felt with a finger nail (just barely) right at the very bottom with the piston at BDC. Seems to be un-feel able just a small ways up from that. Some other relatively faint marks that can't be felt anywhere. Otherwise everything looks pretty good (I think). Definitely no valve marks on the pistons (or valves) and I gave everything a bit of a wipe down before re-assembling. A fair bit of oil in the intake, more than I expected given I am not running the breather hose back to the throttle body, but got some second opinions on it and it is likely just due to the fresh rings. I certainly have not noticed any evidence of oil (or coolant) in the exhaust. A bit of 'smearing' on the cam lobes, but definitely not anything that can be felt.

Got the head back on, all went fairly smooth actually.

Went out for a few good pulls up to ~6k in third, flesh out the map a bit. Car seems to be running well.

Drove it home, and other than a sync loss event at like 30km/h halfway that nearly gave me a heart attack it went very smoothly. Likely need to fine tune spacing a bit on the hall sensor I am using for crank position.

Some pictures:

[JehTehsus]

Also, here is the oil filter:
-It seems the shavings are non-magnetic. Tried with a fairly strong shop magnet used for bolts, but nothing seemed to want to stick to it. Shavings were quite small though, so maybe just stuck in oil, but even when pulled out and onto my oily fingers the magnet would not pick them up.
-Looked like nothing at all except *maybe* some extremely fine dust on the magnetic drain plug.
-This is the third filter and oil change. First was immediately after running the car for 10 minutes, second was after about 30km of driving and messing with tune, then this one after ~240km of driving.
-Definitely some larger black flecks in the filter that are permatex.
-Unfortunately we used a very dirty oil pan with a bunch of shavings and bits already in it... bit of a screwup on our part as it makes it impossible to tell if something made it into the bottom of the pan or not. For the record though, the last two changes I have used clean pans and there was nothing visible except at best the occasionally sparkly bit the size of a dust particle.








Note that I have a ton more photos... happy to post up later if someone wants to see something.

[JehTehsus]

More oil filter fun... Changed the oil again. So this third time around, there is a total of around 650km on the car.

I feel like there is too much debris... it doesn't seem to be magnetic, at least none of the larger visible flakes (they stick to my finger better than they stick to an oily magnet) but when I put the magnet down in the empty pan with a thin film of oil in it I could definitely see tiny, not even really visible except when the light hits them particles shooting into the magnet. Took quite a bit of dragging it around for there to even be any visible build up on the magnet.

Anyway, I am not too keen on there still being visible bits. I did re-use my old oil cooler without flushing or anything, so maybe some crap came from there, and there are still a few Permatex bits in the filter (much less than last time), but the larger metal shavings are obviously concerning. They look like aluminum, but that does not make much sense to me.

At any rate, no audible knocking yet... maybe I will spend a while poking around with the stethoscope while she is idling.

Also, changed my FPR with the replacement Nuke sent me, will verify if that has resolved my fuel pressure issues soon. Redid my plug wires, was not happy with the bends in the plastic sheath. Also determined my #4 plug had a poor connection (some evidence of arcing) at the coil pack, so I need to keep an eye on this. For now tried just squeezing the connection with pliers, but I am going to be getting new plug ends in (ones with the separate crimp section for the wire, I really am not a fan of these with the fold-over crimp where the conductor is between the insulation and the crimp) before driving the car further than up and down the hill into the shop.

Again, seems like the visible bits in there are not magnetic... or if they are, they are only extremely weakly and will stick to my finger over the magnet. Interestingly enough the larger black flecks (Permatex) all seem to be extremely magnetic.





Top, less oily filter in this picture is the OLD filter from the second change, for comparisons sake.

May not be easy to tell from the pictures - but I would say generally there seems to be a fair bit less debris in the third oil filter, although there were a couple of folds that looked comparable in terms of crap to the 'average' of the second oil filter.



New FPR in place. Have not put the gauge in the front yet, I have the digital Bosch PTS sensor I use 99% of the time anyway.



Plug wires redone. High temp sheathing, some heatshrink and fancy stainless steel cable ties. In other news, valve cover is STILL slowly leaking, been around it 30 times already, even to the point where I stripped and had to replace a couple of nuts (slowly tightening by hand after torque wrench pass did not stop leaks). I think the IE head studs are indeed slightly too long, so I am probably going to have to drill a few select holes in the VC baffle... fun stuff.

[JehTehsus]

Not much of an update, but I did get around to running the car for a bit.

Other than performing (another) unintended coolant flush, this time by leaving the reservoir cap off and warming up the engine, everything went well. Need to actually drive around to be totally certain, but looks like the replacement FPR fixed the fuel pressure issue, so props to nuke for getting me a no questions asked replacement ASAP.

Going to change the plug wires, one of them (#4) didn't like going back together and is giving me intermittent issues. I also don't really like the single crimp setup anyway so I am replacing them all with a dual crimp (one for the wire, one for the insulation) setup that I will hopefully get in my hands soon.

Once that is done I need to put some more miles on it, then one more oil filter check. Then it is time to finish up the cluster project and get serious about either suspension or forced induction (assuming I don't have a bearing issue... if I do she is coming back apart, obviously).

[atmh]

+subscribed

Love this build. Your MS3 setup is nearly identical to what I'm working towards. Thanks for all the part number references! As others have kinda suggested already, I probably would have suggested getting everything up and running before dropping a bunch of time, money, and energy on engine internals. The stock motor can get you up to 1 BAR of boost no problem, probably more like 21-22 with e85, knock sensor, good tune, etc.

Well, that's my plan anyways so I may be biased.

Everything looks great, two words of advice, and I know it's been a whole year since your last post:

One: booster-less brakes are going to feel different. Less initial "bite" I think is to be expected from manual brakes. But I also wouldn't spend much time on it if it works ok for now, since you mentioned doing a BBK or 5-lug swap.

Two: the A/N fittings coming off your fuel rail going to the FPR are dangerous. That setup is almost guaranteed to crack and spray fuel everywhere eventually. Engine vibrations plus a long chain of aluminum fittings has a high likelihood of eventual fatigue and failure. Your FPR bracket helps, but I'd be very skeptical that it won't eventually fail. You need to either dramatically reduce the length or have a flex line in there.

Overall great build!

[JehTehsus]

+subscribed

Love this build. Your MS3 setup is nearly identical to what I'm working towards. Thanks for all the part number references! As others have kinda suggested already, I probably would have suggested getting everything up and running before dropping a bunch of time, money, and energy on engine internals. The stock motor can get you up to 1 BAR of boost no problem, probably more like 21-22 with e85, knock sensor, good tune, etc.

Well, that's my plan anyways so I may be biased.

Everything looks great, two words of advice, and I know it's been a whole year since your last post:

One: booster-less brakes are going to feel different. Less initial "bite" I think is to be expected from manual brakes. But I also wouldn't spend much time on it if it works ok for now, since you mentioned doing a BBK or 5-lug swap.

Two: the A/N fittings coming off your fuel rail going to the FPR are dangerous. That setup is almost guaranteed to crack and spray fuel everywhere eventually. Engine vibrations plus a long chain of aluminum fittings has a high likelihood of eventual fatigue and failure. Your FPR bracket helps, but I'd be very skeptical that it won't eventually fail. You need to either dramatically reduce the length or have a flex line in there.

Overall great build!

Thanks for the input regarding the FPR line - this is actually a very good point and not something I have considered.
Car is parked at the moment for the winter here, moving it into the shop early next month for (probably a couple months) as I sort a bunch of other things, and this has now been added to the list. I have a casual track day booked beginning of June and need to get a bunch of things done before then. Have not done a ton to it, trying to get stuff together for a house purchase soon, and BC is not cheap.

Booster-less brakes definitely feel different. I am extremely happy with the setup as is right now, and I have spent enough time figuring out the numbers that I am very comfortable moving to a BBK kit and resizing the cylinders to get what I want. Eventually I would like a proper modern ABS unit as well, but that can come later. I am currently very much sitting on the fence regarding more cash into house fund or pulling trigger on coil overs, brakes and 5 lug swap.

And agreed regarding stock motor - but I am also not trying to build the absolute fastest e30 either, it is as much a learning experience and after hours project as anything. So far lots of fun and (lots and lots) of learning.

[JehTehsus]

The old girl is almost ready for her first track day adventure. 95% of what I have been up to this weekend has been fixing things and tidying other bits - Pulled the carpets, dirtily patched a bunch of rust holes in this mostly swiss cheese chassis, sorted a bunch of electrical issues (my headlights finally work - naturally just a loose wire shorting out somewhere that was causing them to fail. One of my running lights has a iffy connection, but I am not sure I really care at this point).
I think there might still be a super slow oil leak (as in maybe a coin size droplet after sitting for a half hour) but it could just be residual shit seeping off the block. I have had tons of issues with the coolant cap not threading on properly and generally only notice when it washes my engine bay from the inside (new OEM res and cap too - FFS). Luckily I have discovered if I can't hit ~40kPa+ coolant pressure at idle when tapping the throttle the lid is not sealed and needs to be adjusted (with a lot of cursing thrown in).
My buddies and I also redid the exhaust last weekend, quite happy with how that turned out.

In terms of things still to do before the 4th - I am replacing the coolant hoses because about half of these ones have suffered significant damage in some form or another due to various issues... I am actually running a very temporary old hose down by the alternator. I think my issues with the reservoir cap really just highlight the need to get a new rad and swap over to the late model cooling system, the early one has lots of headaches, but for now it is what it is (probably yank the motor this winter).
I think for now i am going to leave the FPR fittings setup as is - I am not sure about wear hardening, the rail, FPR and L fitting joining the two are not exactly flopping in the breeze (they are solidly anchored to the motor and do not move relative to each other or the engine at all, at least visibly or by trying to jiggle them). There are flex lines on the L fitting at the back of the motor/fuel rail and obviously underneath the FPR.
I need to get some reinforcements onto the rear subframe for the larger sway bar. I believe the kit was supposed to come with them but I don't think I got any, although cutting out something is not a big deal. If I can't get this done before track day (I need to be out of the shop by Friday this week) then I will just have to run the rear as soft as possible and suffer because of it.
Some things still need to be properly tied off, but most of it is sorted.
Tuning is the final item - I am running NA right now, won't be dyno tuning before the 4th, but I need to redo fuel maps and whatnot and will get that done soon.

Eye candy:


Note that I ended up replacing the tilton reservior mount (which is 3d printed in this picture) with a steel piece - turns out ABS and *any* brake fluid at all do not get along well in the slightest. The plastic printed parts work great in plenty of places, but not there...


Note that I lowered the nuke catch can and routed it back to the intake. Had a few people ask me if my car was on fire because the front headlight often appeared to be billowing out unpleasant smoke. I think I will either be routing this to the car underbody/atmosphere or into the exhaust post turbo in the future.



The seats are now mounted on the adapters that I intend to use for proper racing buckets eventually. The issue is I think I will not be able to manage my ideal driving position with a helmet - I have maybe a finger and a half of clearance to the roof. That said, the brackets are only an inch thick so even without them it is debatable if I could manage it, and without them the seat is too far back for me to comfortably use the manual brakes. I think the right answer is removing the factory sliders and running a fixed mount, which I may try and get to for at least the driver side this week.








Exhaust came together well - the mid section is redone. For now still running a cat, but I am likely close to the DB limit for the track (95) so it stays until turbo time. Track measurements will be further back then this, but this was also a 7k rpm 'pull' while sitting in the driveway.





Overall pretty happy with things are at. Still a bit to do, but I think everything is more or less under control for once...

[JehTehsus]

Well well well... finally got her out to the semi-local race track yesterday. It was my first time out, but it was still a fantastic time.

Car held together surprisingly well - in short, the only issue I had was momentary sudden loss of power in a few ascending right handers, which I have confirmed today was entirely due to loss of fuel pressure. This occurred with roughly 30-35L of fuel in the tank, after running into the issue on my second last session I filled it up and it was fine. It can very clearly be seen in the datalogs as well.

I was definitely the slowest car out there - field was about 80% M2s and one E36, so I was getting passed a great deal, even being in the slow group, but it was a ton of fun regardless.

In terms of individual systems, here are my high level comments from the day:

Driver
Needs a lot more practice

Fueling System
As noted above, there was a definite loss of pressure in a few corners. This was extremely noticeable, the engine essentially shutoff briefly (which is what I have the MS configured to do) which is rather concerning in a corner, especially when you have an M2 riding your already slow ass. No leaks or anything at all, obviously, which is good, but before I go out again I will be putting in a late style tank with an integrated swirl pot and dual pumps. I was really starting to get comfortable coming on hard out of corners and the sudden disruption was quite disappointing. Note that this happened with >30L of fuel in the tank as well - I was not running on fumes.

Brakes
I am happy to say the manual brakes performed fantastically. With the intermittent rain I was a bit hesitant to push it too far, but as far as I did push them they continued to deliver. They were not as much of a workout as I feared, either, but I definitely could have been braking later and harder most of the time. I had one of the instructors there drive my car and after the first couple laps he told me that the brakes feel absolutely fantastic; he said he loved how repeatable they were.
I did start to notice some definite brake fade at the end of my second last session where I was pushing the hardest (right before rain started back up), but this is something I need to counteract with larger rotors and calipers.

Oil
No issues. I had the minimum pressure limit set at 400kPa WOT initially - I think this was a little too high, so I lowered it a bit as I was getting quite a few nuisance flickers of my oil pressure light (at WOT). Reviewing the datalogs today, I see that at the peak temperatures the oil reached (109.3C) and WOT I was hovering around 385kPa, which is maybe a touch lower than I would like but probably makes sense with the oil squirters in place. Was running liquimoly 10w60 Race Tech GT1 the entire time, and did not see any noticeable oil consumption on the dipstick.

Cooling
No issues. Peak kPa of 141, right at the start of a session, and temperatures while on the track averaged ~85C and never exceeded 88. In the paddock after a session temps would climb as high as 93, and the fan kicks on around 91 so this makes sense.

Suspension
Was running the rear sway bar on the softest setting as I was concerned about tearing the subframe, since I don't have reinforcement tabs in place at this point. Overall I am not loving the factory suspension, lots of body roll and it was definitely hurting my confidence, especially when I was nearing top speed in the long right hander (top speed was only ~130km/h, so not even terribly fast).

Misc
Definitely needs more tuning, some spots the AFRs are not great and I think in general the motor is not making peak power by any means. This is ok - I have not even taken it to a dyno at this point, and I was not there to set any records. That being said the overall drive-ability felt pretty good.

I am mostly just happy the motor survived and the car held together, which at this point was the goal. Also nice having some actual datalogs from on-track use.

Here is a video I quickly stitched together from some of the dashcam and other footage, mostly of the last lap. Naturally I did not have it setup (wired it in the night before) properly so I only managed to capture the final lap: https://youtu.be/OcvOyEKC94Q

If anyone is interested I can upload some datalogs.

[JehTehsus]

Got my hands on some of the shots taken while out at the track last weekend - not even one oil slick visible, unbelievable!