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The Little Motor That Keeps Breaking Part 2 (3? 4? 5?) - Long Story

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    The Little Motor That Keeps Breaking Part 2 (3? 4? 5?) - Long Story

    I just got back from a great weekend of climbing in Joshua Tree. It is an annual trip, and the driving is usually done by someone else with a newer car that gets better mileage. Well, all of my Bay Area buddies bailed on the trip, so I drove the E30 down there & met some of my friends from San Diego. Overall, it was ~1100 miles between friday & yesterday. I averaged 60mph (maintained 70-75mph on the highway) and got 29mpg...pretty darn good! For anyone that has ever driven CA247 to Barstow, and CA58 to Bakersfield/I5, you know my deep sense of relief for making it out of the Mojave desert. It is beautiful country, but I would never want to break down there (desert plains at 3000-4000ft altitude).

    Anyway, being that I have had a 318iS for ~12 years, I have developed sort of a 6th sense for the thing. Anyone that has driven a car that long can probably pick out the slightest abnormal noise or vibration. I rebuilt my timing case last May when my idler sprocket came apart, and since then I have been getting this odd rattling/knocking sound with a fully warmed-up engine, between 3100 & 3400RPM. I have had the timing case covers off a couple of times since then, trying to figure the noise's source out & replacing suspect parts, but to no avail. So, knowing that something was up with the timing assembly, let's just say that I was nervous for the entire 1100 mile drive!

    On I5, maybe 15 miles south of the Kettleman City exit, I noticed what seemed like a new noise, but I told myself to ignore it as road noise. I sort of knew that it wasn't, but I was irritated with the car, and what else was I going to do other than keep driving home? I pull off at the Shell station, planning to get gas & a burger before the last ~3 hours of the drive. As I pull in to the station, I hear the wonderful rattling, diesel-like sound that is characteristic of an M42 with a loose timing chain. Mmmmm, valves kissing pistons and a chain slapping stuff. So, I am instantly pissed. This is 164 miles from home. I have a Gold AAA towing membership, and I COULD get a tow all the way, although that would likely take me 5-6 hours instead of 2-3.

    I let my fiancee know that I may be a little late and I am deciding whether or not to try to drive the car. I can tell that she is rolling her eyes at the E30; she doesn't share my love for the little red money pit that is always causing grief. I also call my parents, that live about 20 miles from my place, to let them know that my car will be going there where I will either fix it, or have it towed to a shop. I have been in the timing case 3 times now, in the last 10 months. At this point, I am ready to just pay someone else to deal with it. I HAVE to fix it, either to keep driving it, or to sell it.

    So, I decide to see how far the car will get me. At this point, I don't even care that it is broken. Worst case, I get a Metric Mechanic motor if the timing assembly self-destructs on the way home. I gas it up, and start it. GOD I hate that noise! Well, I find that once I rev it over 2500RPM, the noise goes away. Presumably, the oil pressure builds up enough to push the tensioner rail hard enough to take out the slack from [whatever] broke. There is still some abnormal vibration, but it is really slight. All but the last 2 of the 164 miles are highway, and it is late enough that there isn't commute traffic in San Jose, meaning that I can keep the RPMs consistent at around 3000RPM. So, I have a nervous 2.5 hour drive with my fingers crossed. I pull onto my parents' street, kill the engine & coast to a stop in front of their curb. PHEW!

    ----------------------------------------

    OK, so what broke? That 3300RPM rattling noise from the last year that I had mentioned had disappeared, and of course was replaced with the sound of a loose timing chain. So, whatever was making the mystery noise finally gave up the ghost. On the bright side, I should be able to find the broken part now, since whatever it is, is now dead haha. I checked the obvious stuff; the oil level was A-OK, and the tensioner piston was still good. My bet had been on the idler sprocket, that I had replaced last May, blowing up, but I don't think that is the case.

    After my last rebuild, I swear that the tensioner piston was easier to install. It had the right stiffness, but the amount of compression I needed to put into it to install it seemed like less than I remembered. If you have replaced it you know what I mean...you insert it, and then you need to compress the spring maybe 1" in order to thread the cap. Well, after the last rebuild I only needed to compress it maybe 0.5" to get the threads engaged. I told myself that I was being paranoid & tried to forget about it.

    NOW, after [whatever] broke, the tensioner needs about 1" of compression, and something MOVES when I push it in. I am suspecting that the tensioner rail that the piston pushes on has broken, probably at its pivot point. Either the rail itself has gone south, or the pivot pin in the timing case has broken. When I opened the oil cap, I could see small flecks of aluminum in the oil (and on the dipstick). The chain was probably chewing off metal from around the thermostat housing casting in the head. I also don't like that, but at least the little bits will all eventually get caught in the filter. The motor has 220108 miles now, and that's a decent amount for an original motor...perhaps it is time to retire it.

    I last replaced all of the timing case components (guides, rails, chain, sprockets) in 2006, about 75000 miles ago. Given that I have driven the car pretty hard in that time, it is conceivable that the timing parts have worn out. Sheesh, time flies! I still think of the engine as having freshly replaced parts, but it really has been a long time! Anyway, now that I have had a good night's sleep, I am trying to decide on what to do. I really am sick of working on this damn car, and I want a solid, reliable car to do road trips with. In saying that, I sort of know that a 22 year old German car just isn't quite the right match haha. But still, I have driven an E30 for 12 years, and there just isn't a single newer car I can think of (or in my price range) that is an actual DRIVER'S car. So here are the options I am considering:

    - Tow the car to a German auto specialist to have them deal with [whatever] broke. It will be a little costly, but I just don't know if I can stand to lose another weekend working on the thing.
    - Suck it up & rip it apart myself. Cheaper, but I lose a weekend.
    - Buy a Metric Mechanic Sport M42. Much more costly, but at least I don't have to worry about engine problems again for a very long time. I am not sure if I would do the swap or just pay a shop to do it for me, for the same reason as above. I would probably shell out for a MM transmission and differential while I was at it, just to make sure that the whole drive train is SOLID.
    - Have a shop repair the engine, sell the car & get something new(er). The new Ford Focus gets better mileage, has the 4 doors that I sort of want, and a warranty. It lacks the soul of the E30, but I am really sick of WORRYING every time I take my car anywhere. This makes the least economic sense of course, but it would get me peace of mind, which is hard to put a price tag on.

    Something funky is also up with the clutch (I can feel / hear a popping as I release the clutch), so I would have that taken care of as well. What are you guys' thoughts? I love this car, but I think it is sort of an irrational response based on the fact that I have dumped thousands of dollars and hundreds of hours into this thing. I KNOW that a newer car is the answer to my road-tripping needs, but I keep thinking that I can make my 22 year old German car reliable. Is this textbook insanity? Does my car have me held captive, and I have developed Stockholm syndrome?

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    #2
    That's quite a history you have with your 318is. I enjoyed reading your threads on your builds on m42club. Best of luck!

    I replaced my valve cover gasket yesterday and discovered the shark teeth cam gears. Sadly, these motors aren't as invincible as I pretend they are.

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      #3
      I am starting to think that the timing chain was actually sort of a weak design. The idler sprocket certainly was, which is probably why the M44 ditched it in favor of a plastic rail.

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        #4
        I too enjoyed this story and other ones you've posted, you always give proper details.

        First of all, in my opinion. If you are willing to spend the money to buy a new car, I would without a doubt keep the 318is no matter which way you plan on doing that.

        However, if the 318is isn't fulfilling your lifestyle needs, maybe looking into a different vehicle is a wise decision.
        Different strokes for different folks.

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          #5
          Thanks.

          I have thought a little about having 2 cars. In reality, one would end up getting driven 100% of the time, and the other wouldn't. As some have suggested on M42Club, I could just keep the E30 and rent a car for road trips. Still, I don't really want to have to deal with stuff breaking on my "around town" car either.

          Somehow, I think that I have been growing up. Despite my best efforts to avoid it, it has been slowly happening. My interests have shifted from autoX and modding the E30 to rock climbing, road trips and woodworking. At the same time, the car was the whole reason I got a degree in mechanical engineering, have learned a lot about electrical engineering, and driven me to do a lot of machining. I like having projects! However, it is becoming impractical to have my primary vehicle be that project.

          Maybe I can find a used Civic in good shape & use that for getting around town and road trips. My fiancee has one, and it is the textbook definition of "low cost, no hassle ownership." The E30 costs me $720/year to insure, and $85 to register in CA. Overall, that is not too bad.

          First things first though...I need to get it running again!

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            #6
            I would lose a weekend and find what's wrong and fix it.

            Longer term I would honestly think really, really hard about an M52B28 on MS41.1 (OBD-II) engine management.

            Really hard.

            It is not as prone as the S50US and S52 to pop headgaskets, since there is more meat between cylinder walls. It is 84x84 bore x stroke, a nice recipe for a balanced engine. It is relatively inexpensive, and it is nearly bulletproof. It has a reasonable oiling and timing system, unlike in my opinion that of the M42.

            It would get 30 mpg highway, and with a nicely designed exhaust, be very quiet. It would have a nicely sized AC compressor for the E30.

            I realize this is like cooking steak in front of a vegetarian. But sometimes that scent is just so tantalizing.

            Originally posted by whysimon
            WTF is hello Kitty (I'm 28 with no kids and I don't have cable)

            Comment


              #7
              Originally posted by FredK View Post
              I would lose a weekend and find what's wrong and fix it.

              Longer term I would honestly think really, really hard about an M52B28 on MS41.1 (OBD-II) engine management.

              Really hard.

              It is not as prone as the S50US and S52 to pop headgaskets, since there is more meat between cylinder walls. It is 84x84 bore x stroke, a nice recipe for a balanced engine. It is relatively inexpensive, and it is nearly bulletproof. It has a reasonable oiling and timing system, unlike in my opinion that of the M42.

              It would get 30 mpg highway, and with a nicely designed exhaust, be very quiet. It would have a nicely sized AC compressor for the E30.

              I realize this is like cooking steak in front of a vegetarian. But sometimes that scent is just so tantalizing.
              You know, I've never really thought of it like that before..
              I've always wanted to stay away from OBDII for no other reason than I'm not too familiar with it.

              This might be a good solution considering the cost of a built MM drivetrain.

              Comment


                #8
                Haha...no, no engine swaps for me at this point. Someday when I have a house and garage, sure. My parents are local & let me use their garage for most stuff...but a month-long swap project would be asking too much. Besides, I would need another car just to get over there & work on it. My fiancee isn't going to be wild about me taking her car all the time to go work on mine!

                I think that I am just going to have a local BMW specialist fix all the broken & worn stuff, and maybe deal with the clutch too. It will be nice & driveable after that. Once I have some time to cool off, I will think about what to do.

                At this point, I am sort of looking at the VW Jetta TDI. A friend of mine has a 2004 Jetta, with around 90k miles on it, and so far it has not had any issues. He has taken it all over the country and on countless trips to the eastern Sierra. It pulls good mileage, and I have driven it a few hundred miles myself. Even with the original suspension, it handles decently. A new one is probably even better. At the same time though, I HATE the feeling of electronic throttle pedals...it is like stepping on a sponge, and you get robbed of all tactile feedback.

                I want a time machine so I can go to 1991 & buy a brand new 318iS, and then to bring it back to 2012. No new cars really excite me, but they have huge appeal because of reliability & lower cost of ownership (ignoring the fact that you pay a ton of $ up-front for them). I would also be out of all car projects with a new one because a) I don't want to void the warranty, and b) I have found that messing with things that aren't broken only causes more trouble! I am 28, getting married later this year (been with this girl for almost 6 years now) and a kid is probably in the works in 3-5 years. An E30 isn't the right primary vehicle for me anymore, but I can't seem to part with it!

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                  #9
                  I know what you mean about not being interested in anything new. To me at least, everything is just too heavy and too complicated. The TDI's are nice, though there are places where it can be very hard to get Diesel.

                  I actually ended up buying another car (a beater) so I have something as a backup, I can tow stuff, I can drive it in the snow, and I can haul tons of people and whatnot. It makes everything a bit less stressful knowing that if one car is down, I have something else that can get me around. You're in Cali too-ever thought of investing in a motorcycle? Also, motorcycle road and camping trips are all kinds of fun, if that sort of thing tickles your fancy.

                  Just as an aside, I have had my 318is strand me a grand total of once in the 5 years and 60k miles I've put on it, and it was my own damn fault for somehow overfilling it with oil. And it's turbocharged. It seems odd that you've been struck with so many problems with yours.

                  Project M42 Turbo

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                    #10
                    How did too much oil lead to getting stranded?

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                      #11
                      A swap is as easy as you make it out to be. If you perform the due diligence required, you can manage a swap in a long weekend.

                      Originally posted by whysimon
                      WTF is hello Kitty (I'm 28 with no kids and I don't have cable)

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Originally posted by FredK View Post
                        I would lose a weekend and find what's wrong and fix it.

                        Longer term I would honestly think really, really hard about an M52B28 on MS41.1 (OBD-II) engine management.

                        Really hard.

                        It is not as prone as the S50US and S52 to pop headgaskets, since there is more meat between cylinder walls. It is 84x84 bore x stroke, a nice recipe for a balanced engine. It is relatively inexpensive, and it is nearly bulletproof. It has a reasonable oiling and timing system, unlike in my opinion that of the M42.

                        It would get 30 mpg highway, and with a nicely designed exhaust, be very quiet. It would have a nicely sized AC compressor for the E30.

                        I realize this is like cooking steak in front of a vegetarian. But sometimes that scent is just so tantalizing.
                        +11 billion
                        Build thread

                        Bimmerlabs

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Originally posted by FredK View Post
                          A swap is as easy as you make it out to be. If you perform the due diligence required, you can manage a swap in a long weekend.
                          Yeah, I know I can do it if I need to. I pulled the motor on my first car. For now, I don't have the time or energy to do it, so I am working on having a shop do it for me. That will mark the first time, EVER, that I have had a shop touch anything other than tires or the catalytic converter, in 12 years!

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                            #14
                            Honestly get an old Hondur. Or an old Corolla, my cousins got one with over 200k on it...oil hasnt been changed in years and the stupid thing still runs.

                            Ive got a 2003 corolla that i drive when the e30 is down. Its fucking gay, but it never breaks . I put over 20k miles on it this year. Only a random evap related CEL to report .

                            My friend has a 1980 300d. Hes put 30k on it within the last year. Gets around 30ish MPG . Super reliable, easy to work on. Never leaves him stranded. Only problems he has are oil leaks. Nothing at all like driving an e30 tho.

                            I do hate the billions of weak spots the M42 has . Considering swapping an M20 in mine. Much more reliable. Nothing ever really goes wrong. More power.

                            Dont part with the edirty. Make it a weekend car if anything.
                            1985 325e M50TU(Sold)
                            1991 318is Slicktop (Sold)
                            1990 325is Brilliantrot S50/5 Lug Swapped.
                            1992 525i Manual shitbox Winter Beater

                            Comment


                              #15
                              OK, having spent a bit of time in M42's, may I offer a suggestion?

                              We all know that the first sign of bad main bearings is low oil pressure, right? That motor is known for a walking crankshaft. I assume you have addressed this with a new design thrust bearing? If that crank is moving around, there is no way for the main bearings to offer proper resistance to oil flow, so pressure will drop as the oil splooshes past the bearings surface too easily...so if your crank is walking, you will lose oil pressure.

                              As the PRMs climb, the crank is less likely to walk AND the oil pump will put out more, thus the tensioner does its job better, right?

                              Pull the thing out enough to get the clutch disconnected from the transmision before you test it, the pressure of the trans and clutch springs will make it hard to move, but spinning it above 2500 RPM would do it for certain. Of the 3 M42 motors I have messed with, the last 2 had well over 1/8" end play. There is absolutely no way they were gonna live for long.

                              Your story made me think of this, are you 100% sure you have acceptable end play?

                              Good luck on it. The M42 would be gone from mine way before any of this crap, no way would I put up with that motor for 12 years, even though I think it is the prettiest of all stock E30 motors:



                              That is the last one we did, a combination of 3 motors to make one.

                              August R3VLimited Special: E3012 "V3" box: $225 shipped

                              Tutorials: Killer $500 Stereo | E30 Vert Dual 8'' Box Installation | E3010 Amp Rack Installation | Radio Wiring and Amp Bypass

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