The semi-Comprehensive M60b40 into E30 swap Q&A

[einarsss]

pm'd :)

[Jean]

einarsss - I am willing to ship you an e32/e34 v8 booster with it's mc and mounting bracket at cost plus actual shipping if you choose to go that route.

[einarsss]

Umm... why would you do this? Just use the parts from V8 E32 / E34, they are smaller and better in performance (you won't end up with "too powerful" brakes)..

I've tried the e32 750Mc (25mm) and the pedal was way too stiff.

The V8 stuff is not that common here in Iceland and with our currency exchange rate with € or $ is not good :( But I was wondering why no one uses the oem booster+mc since its a good combo for my brake setup.

e38 brembo 4 piston calipers @ front

[Jonsku]

Anyone know if its possible to use the oem 325i booster+MC for the remote setup? just like the one from e32/e34 v8's.

I do not want to increase the size of my MC since my brakes are pretty good as is.

Umm... why would you do this? Just use the parts from V8 E32 / E34, they are smaller and better in performance (you won't end up with "too powerful" brakes)..

[Jean]

If you can make it fit, sure.

[einarsss]

Anyone know if its possible to use the oem 325i booster+MC for the remote setup? just like the one from e32/e34 v8's.

I do not want to increase the size of my MC since my brakes are pretty good as is.

[BruceBe]

Is there no aftermarket for the 530i clutch/flywheel combo?

Not that I could find. I poured over Sachs catalogs, and called a few aftermarket vendors.

In the end, we're pretty happy with how it worked out. Parts availability is good, and the e39 flywheel provides an upgrade path to an OBDII 4.4L engine in the future (though, I'm very interested in the hybrid engine that Garey has come up with).

-Bruce

[The Dark Side of Will]

"Basically, there are three models of BMW that used this clutch kit - e36 328i (all body styles), E39 528i Sedan, and Z3 2.8 Roadster. The OEM clutch kit is part #21211223602, but again, we used the Clutchmasters upgrade for the application.

Is there no aftermarket for the 530i clutch/flywheel combo?

[FunfGan]

Man, I REALLY want to get my swap started!

[bmwmech1]

So on the 5-speed, from another thread on the subject, here is what we came up with, and it *works*:
So now, when you do a search on "5-speed clutch", there will be yet another hit :-)

-Bruce

I will give all of the technical R&D credit to Bruce on this topic. He and I conversed about this around this time last year, as he was also searching for a 5 speed clutch/flywheel alternative. He did all of the legwork in finding what pieces did and didn't work together and from this, I gleaned all of my knowledge on the subject... Thanks Bruce:D

Garey

[BruceBe]

Hey man, I thought I'd jump in and clear up some of your confusion... THE main difference between the 2 transmissions, besides the extra gear is the input shaft diameter and number of splines. The 6 speed was used in the E34 and E39 so either flywheel will work for the 6 speed, you just need the proper 6 speed clutch kit diameter for the flywheel you are using. The 5 speed proper clutch kit, with the correct shaft diameter and spline count only comes in a 240mm diameter friction disc, which negates being able to use the E34 6 speed flywheel which uses a 265mm diameter friction disc. You can use an E34 5 speed flywheel from an M60B30 or an E39 540i flywheel from an M62B44, which both utilize the 240mm friction disc diameter. Clutch kit for the 5 speed should be sourced as a E36 328i or E39 528i clutch setup, in whatever stage of performance you choose. Plenty of options out there. As far as lightweight flywheels go, either size can be used for the 6 speed, only the 240mm diameter unit for the 5 speed. The E34, 265mm clutch/flywheel setup will only work for the 6 speed. Bruce has a pretty comprehensive breakdown on what fits and what doesn't, we'll see if he chimes in.

Hope this helps...

Garey

So on the 5-speed, from another thread on the subject, here is what we came up with, and it *works*:

"Basically, there are three models of BMW that used this clutch kit - e36 328i (all body styles), E39 528i Sedan, and Z3 2.8 Roadster. The OEM clutch kit is part #21211223602, but again, we used the Clutchmasters upgrade for the application. Given the torque differences between the 2.8L six, and 4.0L V8, I would be very hesitant to use a stock clutch kit. We chose a lightweight flywheel, but it is dimensionally identical to a stock flywheel, so the stocker should work (just don't drop it on your foot)."

Flywheel is e39 540i. We used a JB Racing unit.

So now, when you do a search on "5-speed clutch", there will be yet another hit :-)

-Bruce

[bmwmech1]

thanks for the explanation! but I thought you can't use the e39 clutch which is 240mm because the 6spd input splines don't match up, hence you are pigeon -held into HAVING to use the 265mm clutch kit from e34 6spd. if I can use the 240mm clutch kit, then I might opt to do that.

The six speed transmissions in the E34 and E39 are the same input spline count and diameter, it's the 5 speed trans from the E34 530i that uses a different spline count and diameter. The 6 speed in the E39 uses the same friction surface diameter flywheel as the E34 5 speed, but the disc/PP setup is different to match the 6 speed's different input spline count/diameter. The diameter of the friction surface doesn't necessarily dictate just 1 clutch setup. There are several, across different body designations that are the same diameter, but use different stack heights and input splines, so you have to match the clutch setup with the transmission. That's why I said there are 3 different setups you can choose from for the 6 speed. The 5 speed is the one that can only use the 1 size because of the input spline differences. There are no other size friction surface diameter clutch kits with the correct spline size for the 5 speed, only 240mm...

I actually just put clutches in an 01 540i 6 speed and an 06 650i 6 speed and although the transmissions/engines are different, the clutches are the same size, 240mm. They both use the same Self Adjusting Clutch setup, even though the motors are different and the transmissions are different. That's why there's been so much effort in finding alternative clutch/trans options for the earlier V8's... different models and even engines can yield the same clutch setups, so you have to be diligent in your research. The clutch I'll be using is not even originally offered as a V8 clutch, but the spline/diameter/stack height is correct for my application. Does it all make more sense now?

Garey

[The Dark Side of Will]

That may be true in a very purist sense of crunching numbers, but we are talking about an increase of friction surface area vs. a 15mm increase in diameter. Some may feel that an imperceptible, nano-second slower shift is far less important than having the largest friction surface area available, especially in higher horsepower applications. This is debatable and subjective to the individual...;)

Garey

Both the torque capacity and the moment of inertia are proportional to the square of the outside radius/diameter.
Guys who went from 9 1/8 to 9 11/16 clutches (similar diameters to the BMW 240mm) in Fieros, for example, notice significant increase in shift times.

My recommendation is always to use the smallest diameter disk that results in pedal load and chatter that is acceptable for the application, understanding that smaller disk diameter, higher clamp loads and more aggressive friction materials all go together...

[Garageaholic]

thanks for the explanation! but I thought you can't use the e39 clutch which is 240mm because the 6spd input splines don't match up, hence you are pigeon -held into HAVING to use the 265mm clutch kit from e34 6spd. if I can use the 240mm clutch kit, then I might opt to do that.

[bmwmech1]

The larger diameter disk slows down shifting.
The synchronizers create the torque that accelerates or slows the input and counter shafts so that the transmission can go into gear. The clutch disk is obviously splined to the input shaft. Because of its diameter, the disk accounts for the vast majority of the moment of inertia of the transmission. A larger diameter disk is more difficult to accelerate or slow down by a factor of the radius squared relative to a smaller disk. This means it takes the synchros longer to match shaft speeds in the transmission and shift times are increased.

That may be true in a very purist sense of crunching numbers, but we are talking about an increase of friction surface area vs. a 15mm increase in diameter. Some may feel that an imperceptible, nano-second slower shift is far less important than having the largest friction surface area available, especially in higher horsepower applications. This is debatable and subjective to the individual...;)

Garey