1UZ (w/ SC in future)

[enildeR]

My car's been down for a while, for a number of reasons. I decided to pull the trigger on a Toyota 1UZ after seeing someone's thread on r3v. It's a 98 VVT-i, so 290 HP and 300 ft-lbs.

I picked one up of ebay for $1k. Should be here soon. I plan on taking the opportunity to replace the rods and pistons, so I don't have to do it when I put the SC on. Other rebuild stuff to make sure it's sound when I eventually get around to starting it all up.

Here's my problem: transmission.

The reason is I'm planning on buying a 2.3L Whipple SC. From most info online, provided internals are upgraded, it'll more than double power ratings. I want to plan out a gearbox swap now instead of blowing one up while driving, possibly limping home, and then finding a solution.

I've read plenty on people using the W58 for stock, and R154 for FI (both Toyota). The R154s are $$$ on ebay. rob_e30 found the limit of G240's being around 300. I guess I could use the current box I have in stock form until I decided to go with the SC. There's a company that rebuilds R154 so they are better than new with better syncros, micro polishing and other stuffs. But the rebuild requires a core, and the cost is $2800. That gets a clunky gearbox that can easily handle 600 ft-lbs. JCwhitney has some transmissions. The tremec TKO 600 is just about the cost of the R154 rebuild, but I still need to get a bellhousing and possibly adapter place fab'd up, so sourcing the R154 is the cost of the fab work.

Anyone else have ideas on a viable alternative? Are there any BMW gearboxes/transmissions that could be adapted? I liked the idea of going dual clutch, as some of them come with their own computer, but I never saw prices, so I'm wagering that it's probably going to be more than $10k. Should I look for certain make/year salvages to pull from (for dual clutch)?


I'll post pics up and do a bit of detailed build info as I go.

As for other stuff:

I have a Wolf3D from Wolf EMS sitting in my closet, so tuning the standalone and the regular bits that go with that (wideband). Need to plan on an exhaust, as I want it to sound goddamn sweet. Better than the fucking Mustang I saw on the road the other day.

The 1UZ used fluid filled mounts, too. I just don't know dimensions. I'll see about using the new ones I bought for the M42, as the engine is about the same weight. That was the main reason I went with the 1UZ instead of rebuilding the M42: more power but same weight. Just need to fab some brackets. Hopefully the engine has the mount brackets still on the engine. I wanted to see how close they line up.

I have no idea if it's a front, mid, or rear sump, as apparently the engine had different ones for the different vehicles it was in.

[mr2peak]

I love this motor. 1UZ = budget LS with huge gains on mild boost.

Here's a great debate, LS vs 1UZ, from one of my favorite un-biased forums. I know this will come up in this thread, let's get it out of the way.

https://grassrootsmotorsports.com/forum/grm/1uz-vs-lsx/53561/page1/

That said…

Why not run a stock block 1UZ, keep it simple; and still put down way more power than the E30 trailing arm suspension can handle? Still awesome and unique, but way less expensive, which means more $$ for dyno time.

I will watch this with great interest. I did quite a bit of research in this direction myself when I bought my first E30 after my swapped Mk1 MR2 got t-boned (rip).

[The Dark Side of Will]

Any specific reason you want 1UZ over M60?

Custom bellhousing makers include Quicktime/Lakewood, Browell, ProBell, etc.

The Quicktime website isn't very good, so you should probably call them.

http://lakewoodindustries.com/

http://www.browellbellhousing.com/

http://www.probellracing.com/

[mr2peak]

1UZ is WAY lighter than any BMW V8

[dirty30]

1UZ is WAY lighter than any BMW V8

I'm sure it is marginally lighter, but not ALL CAPS "WAY" lighter.

[filthiest e30]

I'm sure it is marginally lighter, but not ALL CAPS "WAY" lighter.

With some quick googling I found that the 1UZ is about 390lbs and if I am remembering correctly that is about 50lbs less the then the M60. I agree that the ALL CAPS is not necessary but, I am a little bias ;)

[Wanganstyle]

My car's been down for a while, for a number of reasons. I decided to pull the trigger on a Toyota 1UZ after seeing someone's thread on r3v. It's a 98 VVT-i, so 290 HP and 300 ft-lbs.

I picked one up of ebay for $1k. Should be here soon. I plan on taking the opportunity to replace the rods and pistons, so I don't have to do it when I put the SC on. Other rebuild stuff to make sure it's sound when I eventually get around to starting it all up.

Here's my problem: transmission.

The reason is I'm planning on buying a 2.3L Whipple SC. From most info online, provided internals are upgraded, it'll more than double power ratings. I want to plan out a gearbox swap now instead of blowing one up while driving, possibly limping home, and then finding a solution.

I've read plenty on people using the W58 for stock, and R154 for FI (both Toyota). The R154s are $$$ on ebay. rob_e30 found the limit of G240's being around 300. I guess I could use the current box I have in stock form until I decided to go with the SC. There's a company that rebuilds R154 so they are better than new with better syncros, micro polishing and other stuffs. But the rebuild requires a core, and the cost is $2800. That gets a clunky gearbox that can easily handle 600 ft-lbs. JCwhitney has some transmissions. The tremec TKO 600 is just about the cost of the R154 rebuild, but I still need to get a bellhousing and possibly adapter place fab'd up, so sourcing the R154 is the cost of the fab work.

Anyone else have ideas on a viable alternative? Are there any BMW gearboxes/transmissions that could be adapted? I liked the idea of going dual clutch, as some of them come with their own computer, but I never saw prices, so I'm wagering that it's probably going to be more than $10k. Should I look for certain make/year salvages to pull from (for dual clutch)?


I'll post pics up and do a bit of detailed build info as I go.

As for other stuff:

I have a Wolf3D from Wolf EMS sitting in my closet, so tuning the standalone and the regular bits that go with that (wideband). Need to plan on an exhaust, as I want it to sound goddamn sweet. Better than the fucking Mustang I saw on the road the other day.

The 1UZ used fluid filled mounts, too. I just don't know dimensions. I'll see about using the new ones I bought for the M42, as the engine is about the same weight. That was the main reason I went with the 1UZ instead of rebuilding the M42: more power but same weight. Just need to fab some brackets. Hopefully the engine has the mount brackets still on the engine. I wanted to see how close they line up.

I have no idea if it's a front, mid, or rear sump, as apparently the engine had different ones for the different vehicles it was in.

I'm a Longtime toyota / 2J fan; built a sc300TT bpu in 2009

for the toyota V8 engines there is currently a bellhousing adapter avail for W58; its the NA MK4/MK3 supra and sc300 gearbox. They can do about 360rwhp reliably and are easy to find

I have seen some recent 2jz + BMW gearboxes; the guys who make adapters claim that the BMW flywheel bolts right onto the 2jz engine.

1UZ must be pretty close if the current adaptations to manual for 1UZ use 2JZ manual gearbox.

this site has a bunch of different adapters for common nissan boxes; 5 and 6 speed.

http://collinsadapters.com/index.php/adapter-plates.html

[enildeR]

I love this motor. 1UZ = budget LS with huge gains on mild boost.

Here's a great debate, LS vs 1UZ, from one of my favorite un-biased forums. I know this will come up in this thread, let's get it out of the way.

https://grassrootsmotorsports.com/forum/grm/1uz-vs-lsx/53561/page1/

That said…

Why not run a stock block 1UZ, keep it simple; and still put down way more power than the E30 trailing arm suspension can handle? Still awesome and unique, but way less expensive, which means more $$ for dyno time.

I will watch this with great interest. I did quite a bit of research in this direction myself when I bought my first E30 after my swapped Mk1 MR2 got t-boned (rip).

Well, I will be running it stock until I get everything ironed out and the EMS tuned. ...But more than the rear susp can handle? I'll have to look in to it.

Honestly, after searching transmissions (instead of working), I think I might land up buying the M-DCT from an E92 M3. But the 7th gear is f'n 1:1. I would have to get a new diff if I wanted fuel efficiency when cruising. I LOVE the idea of having a M-DCT but the ratios are insane. Only $3.5k on ebay.

Man, I knew a guy during college that had a Mk1 MR2. Immaculate. Nice turbo. But his was stolen. He was never the same. :( Sorry about the loss. Losing a car like that always sucks. Friend lost his '95 Escort GT that he used to autox in like that. It was insane.

Any specific reason you want 1UZ over M60?

Custom bellhousing makers include Quicktime/Lakewood, Browell, ProBell, etc.

The Quicktime website isn't very good, so you should probably call them.

http://lakewoodindustries.com/

http://www.browellbellhousing.com/

http://www.probellracing.com/

I was looking at the M62 earlier, by chance. Looking on ebay, $2k for one. So def would be cost. But actually searching for M60, I saw one for $1k. I guess it would come down to aftermarket, as I read in another forum, but I may be totally wrong. I do like that the M60 has a self-adjusting chain, as the 1UZ has a huge belt. The 1UZ has the VVT-i. but the B40 is right next to the 1UZ in power. But I'd have to ask which one is more fuel efficient? (Yea yea, "but you're dropping in a V8 ...You _care_ about mileage?") I'd have to step up to the M62TU for variable cam timing. There are plenty of 1UZs on ebay, and mine was a JDM import, so I know it's not going to have more than 50k on it. If I get an M60, could have 280k+ miles on it lol. At least, that would be my concern.

Thanks for the links! I'm adding them to my long list of notes. :)

1UZ is WAY lighter than any BMW V8

Well, I see ~448-468, depending on where you're looking, for an M60. Not too much diff.

I'm a Longtime toyota / 2J fan; built a sc300TT bpu in 2009

for the toyota V8 engines there is currently a bellhousing adapter avail for W58; its the NA MK4/MK3 supra and sc300 gearbox. They can do about 360rwhp reliably and are easy to find

I have seen some recent 2jz + BMW gearboxes; the guys who make adapters claim that the BMW flywheel bolts right onto the 2jz engine.

1UZ must be pretty close if the current adaptations to manual for 1UZ use 2JZ manual gearbox.

this site has a bunch of different adapters for common nissan boxes; 5 and 6 speed.

http://collinsadapters.com/index.php...er-plates.html

Yeah, I was thinking W58 in the beginning. After planning for the Whipple SC and how much power it was likely to put out, the W58 would shit itself. Plenty of reading turned up everyone recommending the R154 for FI. I know a lot of gearbox life comes from how you drive, but I don't think the W58 would survive ~600 ft-lbs for very long. But I may have to worry about my suspension more before I get to that point. I just don't like reading about how just about everyone destroys W58s once they up the power output. Could be clutches, too. I don't think too many people really consider how valuable heavy flywheels and sprung discs are to the longevity of gearboxes. We'll see.

I didn't get my engine delivered today. I called them. Turns out they'll call me once they get to my city's distribution center to arrange an appointment for delivery. After that, I have *shrug* a month? Get the pistons/rods and put them in with the other little things. I have to finish gutting my M42 out of the way and deal with wiring. So with wiring... maybe two months to figure out what I want to do with the transmission. The M-DCT is tempting me to just stay NA, but I'll have to figure out the propper diff. I had picked up a slip diff from another E30 guy not too long ago. I still have it in a box, and I don't recall which one it was. Guess I can save that for the car-that-will-receive-my-M42-and-G240? I hate spending money on stuff I don't use. :(

Thanks, guys, for the input. I'm going to have plenty to do this weekend.

[Wanganstyle]

Well, I will be running it stock until I get everything ironed out and the EMS tuned. ...But more than the rear susp can handle? I'll have to look in to it.

Honestly, after searching transmissions (instead of working), I think I might land up buying the M-DCT from an E92 M3. But the 7th gear is f'n 1:1. I would have to get a new diff if I wanted fuel efficiency when cruising. I LOVE the idea of having a M-DCT but the ratios are insane. Only $3.5k on ebay.

Man, I knew a guy during college that had a Mk1 MR2. Immaculate. Nice turbo. But his was stolen. He was never the same. :( Sorry about the loss. Losing a car like that always sucks. Friend lost his '95 Escort GT that he used to autox in like that. It was insane.



I was looking at the M62 earlier, by chance. Looking on ebay, $2k for one. So def would be cost. But actually searching for M60, I saw one for $1k. I guess it would come down to aftermarket, as I read in another forum, but I may be totally wrong. I do like that the M60 has a self-adjusting chain, as the 1UZ has a huge belt. The 1UZ has the VVT-i. but the B40 is right next to the 1UZ in power. But I'd have to ask which one is more fuel efficient? (Yea yea, "but you're dropping in a V8 ...You _care_ about mileage?") I'd have to step up to the M62TU for variable cam timing. There are plenty of 1UZs on ebay, and mine was a JDM import, so I know it's not going to have more than 50k on it. If I get an M60, could have 280k+ miles on it lol. At least, that would be my concern.

Thanks for the links! I'm adding them to my long list of notes. :)


Well, I see ~448-468, depending on where you're looking, for an M60. Not too much diff.



Yeah, I was thinking W58 in the beginning. After planning for the Whipple SC and how much power it was likely to put out, the W58 would shit itself. Plenty of reading turned up everyone recommending the R154 for FI. I know a lot of gearbox life comes from how you drive, but I don't think the W58 would survive ~600 ft-lbs for very long. But I may have to worry about my suspension more before I get to that point. I just don't like reading about how just about everyone destroys W58s once they up the power output. Could be clutches, too. I don't think too many people really consider how valuable heavy flywheels and sprung discs are to the longevity of gearboxes. We'll see.

I didn't get my engine delivered today. I called them. Turns out they'll call me once they get to my city's distribution center to arrange an appointment for delivery. After that, I have *shrug* a month? Get the pistons/rods and put them in with the other little things. I have to finish gutting my M42 out of the way and deal with wiring. So with wiring... maybe two months to figure out what I want to do with the transmission. The M-DCT is tempting me to just stay NA, but I'll have to figure out the propper diff. I had picked up a slip diff from another E30 guy not too long ago. I still have it in a box, and I don't recall which one it was. Guess I can save that for the car-that-will-receive-my-M42-and-G240? I hate spending money on stuff I don't use. :(

Thanks, guys, for the input. I'm going to have plenty to do this weekend.

My 2 turbos and 360rwhp had no issues with a W58; do you really think a 1uz will output more even with a supercharger (that doesnt come stock)?

if comparing power outputs 2JZ is the gorilla in the toyota stable.


the breaking limit of w58 is north of 400rwhp.


IF you actually clicked on the link you would see 1UZ adapters for:

nissan 5 speed from 300zx (good for over 900rwhp)
and nissan 6 speed from 350z (good for similar)

both are cheap as hell and readily avail.

I don't even think you really need to worry about the exact specifics as the car is not together yet; get it running first and then dial it in.

[The Dark Side of Will]

1UZ is WAY lighter than any BMW V8

Yeah, not so much.
An engine can only be engineered and produced so light, and both manufacturers are pretty much right there, for '90's technology.

[The Dark Side of Will]

Could be clutches, too. I don't think too many people really consider how valuable heavy flywheels and sprung discs are to the longevity of gearboxes. We'll see.

Heavy flywheels kill gearboxes. Sprung hubs don't matter.

Check out www.car-parts.com for junk yard parts... Can find some really good deals.

My 2 turbos and 360rwhp had no issues with a W58; do you really think a 1uz will output more even with a supercharger (that doesnt come stock)?

if comparing power outputs 2JZ is the gorilla in the toyota stable.

the breaking limit of w58 is north of 400rwhp.

Supercharged torque is harder on a driveline than turbo torque. Turbo torque comes on smoothly, supercharged torque has a much sharper rise time when the throttle is snapped open, especially at high RPM.

The rotational inertia of the supercharger also contributes "flywheel effect" to transient torque when power shifting.

[Wanganstyle]

Heavy flywheels kill gearboxes. Sprung hubs don't matter.

Check out www.car-parts.com for junk yard parts... Can find some really good deals.



Supercharged torque is harder on a driveline than turbo torque. Turbo torque comes on smoothly, supercharged torque has a much sharper rise time when the throttle is snapped open, especially at high RPM.

The rotational inertia of the supercharger also contributes "flywheel effect" to transient torque when power shifting.

A supercharged stock 1uz puts down how much? How much boost can it really make/take out of the box?

A bpu 1 bar boost twin turbo 2jz puts down more torque. We know it has much higher limits for power max also.

Sheer amount of stress considered not the particular method of boosting.

Blowers are belt driven and constant output in relation to rpm.

Turbos are waste driven and the engine can go from 1 bar vacuum to 1 bar with just throttle application.

Which has more potential for shock to driveline?

[The Dark Side of Will]

He's looking at a Whipple 2300 and built engine... 600 ftlbs is well within reason.

Simply going from vacuum to boost with throttle application is irrelevant. All forced induction mechanisms do that.

However, going from vacuum to boost, the turbo has to accelerate, while the SC is already turning the speed it needs to turn. Thus the SC generates boost as fast as air can move through the system (meaning as fast as a naturally aspirated engine) and the turbo is slower.

Also, the rotating mass of the blower effectively adds to the rotating mass of the engine, making spin ups and spin-downs harder on the driveline.

[Wanganstyle]

He's looking at a Whipple 2300 and built engine... 600 ftlbs is well within reason.

Simply going from vacuum to boost with throttle application is irrelevant. All forced induction mechanisms do that.

However, going from vacuum to boost, the turbo has to accelerate, while the SC is already turning the speed it needs to turn. Thus the SC generates boost as fast as air can move through the system (meaning as fast as a naturally aspirated engine) and the turbo is slower.

Also, the rotating mass of the blower effectively adds to the rotating mass of the engine, making spin ups and spin-downs harder on the driveline.

Dreaming is much different than reality. Show me the built engine and giant blower and ill bet the OP already figured out the gearbox issue years ago.

I'm saying from my own experience that 2j bpu cars are much gnarlier in bpu setup than dreamer 1uz ideas.

One is the foremost turbo petrol engine known to man, the other is a luxo barge engine that is supposed to be silent.



getrag v 161 can fit the 1uz perfectly with adaprer and take 1600rwhp; I've seen them ran stock and pop over 240mph txmile.

[The Dark Side of Will]

I'm not saying they can't.

Just that a W58 is likely to be more fragile behind a supercharged 8 than a turbo 6, even at the same torque output, for the reasons mentioned above.

Usually the dreamers look at the price of a Whipple and shut up quickly. I'm just giving him the benefit of the doubt.

"Foremost turbo petrol engine known to man" is just a little bit of hyperbole...