1UZ (w/ SC in future)

[enildeR]

Heavy flywheels kill gearboxes. Sprung hubs don't matter.

More times than not, that 4-puck, unsprung hub will kill even your stock box.

do you really think a 1uz will output more even with a supercharger (that doesnt come stock)?

Yes.

I'm not sure what you're implying with the parenthetical.

Of course it will not be stock. Most of the intake will have to be fab'd, the water-to-air intercooler under the SC will be custom or from other some other SC kit that just happens to fit. Custom work is nothing new to me. I took 2 1/2 years of industrial mechanics in high school. It covered everything from rebuilding a ford small block, wiring up a VW bug from the ground up, to welding with an acetylene torch. I've been working on engines since then. (Guess how old I am?)

A supercharged stock 1uz puts down how much? How much boost can it really make/take out of the box?

It won't be out of the box.

Depends on how much you engineer into the system, e.g. water injection, combustion chamber finessing. It also matters much compression you're running.

Just a reminder, as I stated before: I'm buying rods and pistons for this, and they're not stock OEM parts. When the SC goes on, it will not be stock.

Since I haven't found anyone with a proper twin-screw (internal compression) supercharger on a 1UZ, with exception of this gent: http://www.lextreme.com/forums/showthread.php?t=12845

We'll have to use his numbers as a general rule for how much will go through the drivetrain.

I was shooting for 600 ft-lbs. He's putting just over 700 ft-lbs down, and he's running 10psi.

Whipple Superchargers are nothing to laugh at. the 2.3L units are typcially put on larger engines. Like 5.3L in trucks/suvs, and it still increases the power substantially. It's compressing 2.3L of air for every revolution ...on a 4L engine. The psi level will easily get to 20, but you can put whatever pully you want on it to adjust. That's Xpsi through the entire RPM range. Completely different than turbos. When it comes to the drivetrain, you have to consider that. It's being subjected to greater forces at all times the throttle is open. If the W58 is great, why is everyone that is making over 400hp/tq wl FI breaking them? Most write-ups on the 1UZ swap recommend the R154 if you're going to do FI.

As I said, the engine will be stock until I tune the system and ferret out any gremlins. I don't want to spend the money on a gearbox that will break later, and then have to spend money on another gearbox that is stronger. I just want to get a box that will handle the stock engine power and still survive when the SC goes in.

[enildeR]

V160 is quite spendy on ebay. So are the R154s. If I'm going to spend that much money on a gearbox, I'd rather get the M-DCT and stay NA.

2.3L whipple can be had on ebay for $2.5k. I'm not worried about that. The kits are what is spendy because of the parts and the R&D that went in to them, but I can't use those. I'd scrap most of the parts in the kit in to the bin because they wouldn't fit right. Dropping $1k for a 1UZ took two seconds for me to decide. Dropping $2.5k for a SC is not an issue. What I'm trying to deal with here is getting the proper gearbox, but also sourcing some feedback as to alternatives to the high priced V160/R154 solutions out there to see if there is a cheaper solution. Hell, I could drop $2.8k on a Tremec TKO600 and not have to worry about it. Hell, there's even some BMW guys saying that the M-DCT can handle over 500 no problem and they're rated for less to cover their asses. R154 is expensive because they're in demand now. $2.5k for a good one. However, BMW gearboxes are cheap because they're not in such high demand. My question was "are there any BMW gearboxes I should look at"? to save money, but would handle the power.

Oh. I was a dreamer all right. I dreamed about what kind of projects I would do, and I was methodical about it because that's how I am. I would plan out every detail because I'm a perfectionist. However, I never had the money to do those projects. I was a kid looking in to the window of a candy store always drooling.

Now, I have the money. Though, I'm not going to just throw it at peeps to get my shit done. I'm going to look at ways I can save money. Gearbox is one I can save money on, but I have to be careful about it. That's the point of this dialog. You seem to miss that point. This thread wasn't for discussing the merits of supercharging an 1UZ.

[jalopi]

From what I've heard the v160 isn't much better than the r154, you're just paying a premium for the 6th gear.

Check and see if there's an adapter plate for the t56. They can handle some serious power -and- can be had for around $1k.


The only comment I have about the supercharger (aside from how it'd probably be pretty awesome) is that you might not have enough room for the pulley. I'll take some measurements & pictures of my engine bay tonight; I don't remember how long the 1uz is, but I think it's roughly the same as the 302.

[The Dark Side of Will]

More times than not, that 4-puck, unsprung hub will kill even your stock box.

Sprung vs. unsprung doesn't matter. The springs don't absorb enough torque before they bottom out to provide any meaningful cushion to the driveline.

I've been almost daily driving a sprung hub 4 puck for a couple of years with close to double my stock transmission's rated power and haven't broken it yet. I don't spare the horses, but I don't do dumb things like clutch dumps either. Car is a 1987 Pontiac Fiero with Cadillac Northstar V8.

The stock flywheel is fairly light at 16#. The same combo with a heavy flywheel is a lot harsher on the driveline, as the higher mortality rate of these gearboxes behind Chevy V8's with the heavier 30# swap flywheel indicates.

[enildeR]

Came home to a delivered 1UZ. I lucked out. They included the computer, which wasn't listed in the ebay page. It only listed the harness. Luckily, they didn't cut the harness, so I have the pigtail.




Looks like I'll be able to get this running faster than I anticipated. I'll just use the stock computer (hopefully) for a while and then put the EMS in.



By 10:30pm, I had took most of top stuff off, harness and intake mainly.



I'll continue with it tomorrow when I get home from work and take the heads off.

My Mishimoto oil cooler also came in today, but I was too tired to snap a pic. It'll help keep my mind at ease. I want this engine to last as long as possible.

[enildeR]

From what I've heard the v160 isn't much better than the r154, you're just paying a premium for the 6th gear.

Check and see if there's an adapter plate for the t56. They can handle some serious power -and- can be had for around $1k.


The only comment I have about the supercharger (aside from how it'd probably be pretty awesome) is that you might not have enough room for the pulley. I'll take some measurements & pictures of my engine bay tonight; I don't remember how long the 1uz is, but I think it's roughly the same as the 302.

Yeah, I was doing a bit more researching. T56 is pretty good, but they'll shit themselves, too, after a certain point.

Here's a pretty good writeup about the failings of the T56.

http://www.gmhightechperformance.com/tech/ghtp_1207_t56_transmission_torque_doubling_no_guts_no_glory/

It's a good article to understand what would need to be upgraded on other gearboxes to handle a bit more power. Triple cone synchros, bigger bearings.

Luckily, there's a TR6060 and the T56 Magnum, which has the 6060 internals in the T56 case. There's an adapter for the T56, but I'm not entirely sure if the Bellhousing is diff on the TR6060. The Magnum is the same cost of a R154 rebuild, but you don't have to source a R154, so it's actually cheaper. I believe the T56 Magnum would win out against the R154 in how much power it could handle.

http://www.jegs.com/p/Hurst-Driveline-Conversions/Hurst-Driveline-T-56-6-Speed-Transmissions/1413609/10002/-1

I'm actually leaning towards a 350z CD009 gearbox right now. Z1motorsports sells factory ones for 1699, and the new ones fixed the sychro problems. Friend that has a TT 350z that is putting down over 600rwhp has one and hasn't had a problem. The adapter is cheap. Just have to worry about the clutch components.

As for the pully... Where do you think it's not going to have room? I've seen some pics of a SC'd 1UZ. There should be plenty of room, tho most of those pics have either the 1st or 2nd gen 1UZ, where as the VVTi is a lil different in the front. Plenty of info on the 1UZ in general and about supercharging it here:
http://planetsoarer.com/indexfull.html (Soarer = SC400)

Also saw on that site that Jaguar made a badass dual intercooler supercharger intake manifold. Might Look in to sourcing one.

[jalopi]

Yep, plenty of room for a supercharger pulley in the car the engine was designed for... not so much with our short ass, narrow ass engine bays.



Couldn't find a better pic of a 1uz in an e30 and I can't find the 1uz dimensions with a quick google search so this'll have to do.

I'm not saying it won't work, but the pulley will most likely be very, very close to that skinny radiator. If I went forced induction I'd definitely want a thicker radiator than that.

[MaxBell]

I'll chime in to say that I swapped a 1UZ from an SC400 into an AE86 with the R154 with a custom bellhousing out of Australia. Then the rest of the Supra rear end (diff axles etc) I swapped in later to take the power.

It's a fantastic swap, tons of power.

[The Dark Side of Will]

Yeah, I was doing a bit more researching. T56 is pretty good, but they'll shit themselves, too, after a certain point.

Here's a pretty good writeup about the failings of the T56.

http://www.gmhightechperformance.com/tech/ghtp_1207_t56_transmission_torque_doubling_no_guts_no_glory/

It's a good article to understand what would need to be upgraded on other gearboxes to handle a bit more power. Triple cone synchros, bigger bearings.

Luckily, there's a TR6060 and the T56 Magnum, which has the 6060 internals in the T56 case. There's an adapter for the T56, but I'm not entirely sure if the Bellhousing is diff on the TR6060. The Magnum is the same cost of a R154 rebuild, but you don't have to source a R154, so it's actually cheaper. I believe the T56 Magnum would win out against the R154 in how much power it could handle.

http://www.jegs.com/p/Hurst-Driveline-Conversions/Hurst-Driveline-T-56-6-Speed-Transmissions/1413609/10002/-1

I'm actually leaning towards a 350z CD009 gearbox right now. Z1motorsports sells factory ones for 1699, and the new ones fixed the sychro problems. Friend that has a TT 350z that is putting down over 600rwhp has one and hasn't had a problem. The adapter is cheap. Just have to worry about the clutch components.

As for the pully... Where do you think it's not going to have room? I've seen some pics of a SC'd 1UZ. There should be plenty of room, tho most of those pics have either the 1st or 2nd gen 1UZ, where as the VVTi is a lil different in the front. Plenty of info on the 1UZ in general and about supercharging it here:
http://planetsoarer.com/indexfull.html (Soarer = SC400)

Also saw on that site that Jaguar made a badass dual intercooler supercharger intake manifold. Might Look in to sourcing one.

Everything breaks after a certain point. The 32 spline output shaft from the SSR version of the T56 is supposed to be one of the key aspects of building the transmission for close to 4 digit power.

The T56 has a front plate that bolts to the main case and a shallow bellhousing that bolts to the front plate.
The TR6060 has the bellhousing and front plate integrated.
The engine bolt pattern is the same.

You may want to look into the 6L90E automatic used in the SS Camaros. It shifts quickly, can be controlled electronically and is stronger than the TR6060 by a good margin, apparently.

Keep gearing in mind. With a lot of power in an E30, you're going to be looking for taller overall gears. A trans with a .81 top gear would be better with a rear gear in the mid 2's, while a T56 of TR6060 are going to work better with FD in the mid/low 3's. The mid-3's gears are much easier to get for BMW diffs.

[enildeR]

Yep, plenty of room for a supercharger pulley in the car the engine was designed for... not so much with our short ass, narrow ass engine bays.

From the looks of it, that engine was lined up with the stock mounts on the block. There was a thread I followed (can't remember if it was here or the lextreme forums), where the guy modified the oil pan. It sat back probably a good three of four inches back. I was planning on doing the same.

But remember that the belt is right there under the thermostat housing. That's about where the SC's pully is going to be. Take a look at the pic I put in here that was taken at night with the intake off. That coolant stuff is going to be removed.

Then take a look at this pic:

http://planetsoarer.com/supercharged_jag/EatonMP112Jaguar.htm

See that coolant pipe next the the SC pully? Planning on using that for the thermostat and put a modified plate on the waterpump housing. That smaller hose that goes off to the right and is under the bigger coolant hose goes to the TB, and can be removed without worry. Much like deleting all the bullshit under the M42 intake manifold. So there is a good amount of room, even if I don't move the engine back as far as I can.

Couldn't find a better pic of a 1uz in an e30 and I can't find the 1uz dimensions with a quick google search so this'll have to do.

when you google "1uz dimensions", switch over to the Images search. Should be the first two hits.

I'm not saying it won't work, but the pulley will most likely be very, very close to that skinny radiator. If I went forced induction I'd definitely want a thicker radiator than that.

I'm planning on getting a mishimoto Z3M rad. Seeing the pic you posted, with the mishi rad, I may not have room for my Spal Hi-Flo puller fan. I've had it on the M42 rad for a while. Would suck to have to get a different fan. I guess I'll see once I get both in.

But this all is just me drawing a sketch on paper. Everything has to go in and work. After that, I'll have more time to figure out if I can actually adapt that coolant "bar"? from the jag or not and actually spent time making custom coolant fittings.

[enildeR]

The engine bolt pattern is the same.

Good to know. I'll have to keep my eye out, but I may want to stick with the T56 Mag. I still have to measure shit up. Have no idea how far forward/back the shifter input would be compared the the stock E30 location.

You may want to look into the 6L90E automatic used in the SS Camaros. It shifts quickly, can be controlled electronically and is stronger than the TR6060 by a good margin, apparently.

=O_o=

Inconceivable.

Keep gearing in mind. With a lot of power in an E30, you're going to be looking for taller overall gears. A trans with a .81 top gear would be better with a rear gear in the mid 2's, while a T56 of TR6060 are going to work better with FD in the mid/low 3's. The mid-3's gears are much easier to get for BMW diffs.

Been thinking about them thoughts.
Thoughts of diffs running through my mind.
THINKING ABOUT THEM DIFFS.

[enildeR]

http://ls1tech.com/forums/automatic-transmission/841965-6l90e-here-2.html

The gearbox torque is hi, but I'm not sure why that is listed and several engine torque specs.

Although, the maximum shift speed is listed as 6000 rpm. :(

Stock redline is above that, and I was planning on bringing that up to 7500 (at least for testing to see how it performs). Still, even if I stuck to stock, that would suck. Well, with the SC, it wouldn't but no SC... Hearing a V8 rev to 7500-8k is priceless.

But I really like the OD ratio. That's pretty fucking low. The fact it can move a vehicle that is 15,000 lbs is insane.

Def will look in to it more tomorrow or later this week. Nothing on ebay. Sounds like they'll be hard to get a hold of.

[jalopi]

... dullrot? for real? good luck with the swap man, you're gonna need it.

[enildeR]

Huh?

[The Dark Side of Will]

http://ls1tech.com/forums/automatic-...0e-here-2.html

The gearbox torque is hi, but I'm not sure why that is listed and several engine torque specs.

Although, the maximum shift speed is listed as 6000 rpm. :(

Stock redline is above that, and I was planning on bringing that up to 7500 (at least for testing to see how it performs). Still, even if I stuck to stock, that would suck. Well, with the SC, it wouldn't but no SC... Hearing a V8 rev to 7500-8k is priceless.

But I really like the OD ratio. That's pretty fucking low. The fact it can move a vehicle that is 15,000 lbs is insane.

Def will look in to it more tomorrow or later this week. Nothing on ebay. Sounds like they'll be hard to get a hold of.

Not sure what's up with 6000 RPM, but I'm pretty sure the SS Camaros shift higher than that stock, with this transmission.
It was developed for use in trucks as well as cars... that's why the GVW rating is so high.
For any of those parameters, that's not the max the unit can do... it's just the highest values at which GM has run their validation test. Those numbers may not even be the highest values at which the unit would still pass the validation test. Even if it's run beyond those numbers, it'll still have a good long service life, because the validation tests are meant to be sure the unit will last 100K miles at that level, so that GM can put a warranty on it.