Replaced clutch, car won't turn over... HEEEELP!

[BigD]

Guys I'm going nuts here. I spent 2 and a half days doing the clutch, f'ing Bentley can kiss my ass. They never say remove the starter in the transmission removal. I did all work with basic tools in an underground garage on jackstands. And I've never replaced a clutch. so finally I started rotating the transmission to see if there is anything snagging it, and felt the starter bolts. Man what a pain to remove. Only problem is at this point it was like 5AM (didn't want to leave the car like this for a second longer than necessary because technically we're not allowed to do any work down there) and I didn't pull the battery cable. When removing the starter battery lead, it sparked against the connector, that made me get up and unplug the battery. And nothing electrical happened since then.

So I put everything back together about a half hr ago, all proud of myself that I have no bolts left over (almost freaked out that I bent the shifter links because the shifter was tilted forward, but then I tried rotating the lever in the ball, and that set it straight).

Lower the car etc, turn the key, fuel pump buzzes annnnd bupkus. Starter doesn't go, no click from the solenoid....

Guys please tell me I didn't fry the damn starter or solenoid?? Can they really be so sensitive...?!

All the connections look right. On the one by the engine block, there's only the small wire from the starter, on the other pin there's the battery lead and the other big lead whatever the hell that is. And the small wire on top of the panel is on too...

I tried reading through the Bentley for it but it says there's no fuse. But is there no relay or something else I can check if I fried? How can I check it? I'll go buy a multimeter tomorrow (moved to Vancouver from Toronto, didn't bring too many tools).

The thought of having to remove the starter makes me want to shoot myself. It was such an incredible pain to do during the clutch job and I had to rotate the transmission to get to the top bolt. If I have to replace the starter (please say I don't), is there a way to hold the %&(*&(# bolt from the inside of the engine bay?

[Garageaholic]

what car do you have... you dont need to remove the starter...never did. you should have disconnected the battery.. ALWAYS disconnect the battery everytime you do a job that even comes close to electrical connections...

what do you mean that nothing electrical happened since then?

you probably didn't fry the solenoid, i would check my c101 port , maybe you unplugged it and forgot to plug it back in... check to see if your other engine electronics work correctly, ie your check panel sensors are working correctly. if that doesn't work, then it may be your c101 port...

Other than that, Dont' forget your engine ground if you disconnected that and make sure your starter is grounded...
is the + battery cable connected to the starter... and the black/green wire is connected to the lead for the solenoid?

[nando]

what car do you have... you dont need to remove the starter...never did. you should have disconnected the battery.. ALWAYS disconnect the battery everytime you do a job that even comes close to electrical connections...

yes you do have to remove the starter; there's a plate that is sandwiched between the tranny and engine and the starter is bolted through it. without removing the starter you can't get the plate off, and you can't separate the tranny from the engine. BTDT..

[BigD]

what car do you have... you dont need to remove the starter...never did. you should have disconnected the battery.. ALWAYS disconnect the battery everytime you do a job that even comes close to electrical connections...

what do you mean that nothing electrical happened since then?

you probably didn't fry the solenoid, i would check my c101 port , maybe you unplugged it and forgot to plug it back in... check to see if your other engine electronics work correctly, ie your check panel sensors are working correctly. if that doesn't work, then it may be your c101 port...

Other than that, Dont' forget your engine ground if you disconnected that and make sure your starter is grounded...
is the + battery cable connected to the starter... and the black/green wire is connected to the lead for the solenoid?

It's an E30 325eS.

As nando said, you do have to undo the starter. I wasn't sure what to do because there was no instruction. At first after realizing how big a pain in the ass the starter was to unbolt with the engine tilted (or period, I'm hoping that if it's fried, it's possible to remove it from the engine compartment), I tried to remove the transmission with the starter, but then realized that it doesn't solve the problem because, as nando said, it's pinching the stupid plate.

It was never meant to be anything electrical related, until then, and like I said it was 5 AM and I was completely tweaked out. Anyway that doesn't help me right now.

I don't remember disconnecting any other wires anywhere. There are 4 wires I connected to the solenoid. Looking at the back of it, the right peg holds the big battery lead, and another large lead which I assume comes from the starter. The left peg has only one wire on it, going straight to the body of the starter. Then there is a small wire with a plug that's on the top pin. Did I miss one or screw up the order? (the photo in Bentley is useless, other than the battery lead none of the wires look like what I have, and no pin connector at the top)

[Garageaholic]

yes you do have to remove the starter; there's a plate that is sandwiched between the tranny and engine and the starter is bolted through it. without removing the starter you can't get the plate off, and you can't separate the tranny from the engine. BTDT..

Point taken. i was used to my M30 and i didn't have to remove the starter for it. i thought they were similar, i guess not


As for the electrical problem, just try different permutations of the wires and see what works.. or disconnect the wires and have a helper try to start the car while you take the wires off and use a continuity tester to make sure that you have good connections to everything. If that fails, then i dont know what to tell you... good luck

[lordofthewaters]

Here's a link to a properly set up starter.

http://www.r3vlimited.com/board/showthread.php?t=63604

[BigD]

Here's a link to a properly set up starter.

http://www.r3vlimited.com/board/showthread.php?t=63604

My wires aren't like that, that must be from a newer car. Mine are this way (the two wires on the left (small and big) branch off from one harness together, I've tried swapping the smaller of the wires on the right peg to the left one but it made no difference):

[BigD]

FWIW it's not the starter motor, I went and jumped the pegs and the motor wound up, but didn't engage. Should it have?

[BigD]

Looks like I lied, it's not the fuel pump whirring I'm hearing, it's too loud and I'm now sure that it's coming from the starter. I also hear a loud click... so it could be the solenoid trying to engage, or a relay going off to trigger the system or... I dunno... I was thinking maybe I put the starter on wrong somehow and it can't engage but it's flush against the bellhousing, the bolts are tight...

[delatlanta1281]

I will check this when I get up tomorrow, if there is no answer I will give my friend a call.

[lordofthewaters]

My wires aren't like that, that must be from a newer car. Mine are this way (the two wires on the left (small and big) branch off from one harness together, I've tried swapping the smaller of the wires on the right peg to the left one but it made no difference):

That's strange, as they are the same year and same model car. Beats me.

[ptownTSI]

i have noticed this same thing in the bentley. often they do annoying things like not say how to do something but instead reference you to a different section. they also dont tell you the tool that you need, or show you how to do it either.

[BigD]

i have noticed this same thing in the bentley. often they do annoying things like not say how to do something but instead reference you to a different section. they also dont tell you the tool that you need, or show you how to do it either.

Well that wouldn't even bother me that much as they do it for lots of areas just to save space. But in this case they didn't even friggin reference it. I would be ok with them saying "remove starter as shown in 15.4 Starter Removal" but they don't even say that. Then in starter removal it says, "remove the bolts holding the starter to the transmission bellhousing"... how helpful.

So I've been reasoning through this, the mount on the engine lines up, so it's not skewed up/down/left/right... so I think it's installed properly. The starter does fire up, but the solenoid doesn't engage it. According to the bentley, the solenoid doesn't give the starter any current until it is fully engaged. So how am I getting it to wind without engaging? Should it try to engage when I short the pegs?

Then what is the top pin for? I have a feeling that's the actual solenoid actuator. Perhaps it's dead... and maybe the Bentley refers to the newer starter design with regards to solenoid controlling the starter (btw my car is an '87 but the build date is like august 86 or something, so it has the older starter).

Soooo anyone have any tips for getting to the mofoing starter bolts?

[lordofthewaters]

Well I've heard people say use long extensions, and flexi joints. I've also heard tell of dropping the drive shaft and going in from behind. When I did mine I was fortunate enough to have the car in a location where I could get my air ratchet into it, it was pertty easy. The only problem was that there's a nut on the back or the top bolt, I used a piece of aluminum rod tohold it still (wedged it to keep it from rotating) while I loosened it and tightened it till it drew tight.

[PeaveyBassist]

So you guys are saying the big red wire and the big black wire both go on the same terminal?

Will